Talk:Boris III of Bulgaria

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Untitled[edit]

Taja statija e palna dupka, ako njakoj ima seriozni poznanija neka napishe statija kato horata, sramota e.

  • what are you talking about? Astorknlam 14:00 24 july 2006

Who saved the Jews?[edit]

There is continuing debate as to who was actually responsible for saving Bulgaria's Jews. On the one had editors of this article claim that Boris was a dictator, then on the other hand claim that he was 'compelled' to save Bulgaria's Jews by his puppet advisors and the will of the people. (Doesn't sound like a very good dictator)

After the war, the communist party was very adept about taking the credit for saving Bulgaria's Jewry and it is the Socialist parties of today in Bulgaria that continue to spin the line that, at best, Boris was a follower, not a leader, in this action, hence their support for the removal of his plaque in the Bulgarian Forest in Israel.

The reality is that the question, like thousands of other issues in the Balkans, is subject to intense personal bias from all corners of the debate. For that reason I have amended the wording to be neutral. There is no doubt that Boris refused to agree to the deportation of the Jews. Whether he did so because of his personal beliefs, or because he was 'compelled to' are matters of speculation only. I have left in the claim that there was a popular campaign against their extradition although I have seen no record of such a campaign. Perhaps a citation could be added to prove that statement?Tashkop 21:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

deportation versus extradition[edit]

According to the definitions that I have read, deportation is a term used to refer to the removal from a country of an alien whose presence is unlawful or prejudicial.Merriam-Webster definition.

Since the majority of the Jews in question were Bulgarian citizens I therefore believe that the use of the word 'deportation' in connection to their removal to Poland is not only incorrect, but is also a implicit acceptance of the Nazi position that these people, by their Jewishness, did not have rights as citizens.

Extradition, on the other hand, is defined as being the surrender of an alleged criminal to an external jurisdiction.Merriam-Webster definition. It is correct therefore to state that the Nazis were demanding the extration of these Bulgarian citizens, for the crime of being Jewish, and I have made the appropriate changes to the aritcle.. Tashkop 21:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The devil[edit]

Why did the underage, exit-visa-seeking newlywed Bulgarian girl call him "the devil" in Casablanca (film)? [1] --Uncle Ed (talk) 13:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The makers of that film knew absolutely nothing about Bulgaria (they wouldn't give her such a name if they knew). I doubt they knew at all who ruled Bulgaria. This was probably meant to imply Bulgaria allying itself with Nazi Germany. Kostja (talk) 08:55, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Infobox[edit]

The infobox doesn't have Simeon II as Boris III's successor, it only has him as heir-apparent. Why is that? GoodDay (talk) 15:28, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind, I've fixed it up. GoodDay (talk) 15:33, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Unifier?[edit]

Unifier is a POV term, unsupported by a neutral source. It is true that he was often called the Unifier during his reign but this is not an universally accepted title. Similarly, he could be called Boris the Fascist, which I'm certain most would agree is POV. Therefore all usage of Unifier as if it was official must be removed. Kostja (talk) 12:29, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


It seems like it's supported by neutral sources:

  • R. J. Crampton - "Bulgaria", Oxford University Press, 2007, page 258 most Bulgarians rejoiced at what they saw as the reunification of their historical lands and Boris himself was dubbed, 'King Unifier'
  • Geoffrey Hindley - "The royal families of Europe‎", 2000, Constable, page 91 His Majesty Tsar Boris III, "the Unifier", died at 4.22 pm today from a short, severe illness.
  • Anthony Cave Brown - "Bodyguard of lies", 1976, W.H. Allen, page 446 Czar Boris III, the Great Unifier of Bulgaria, collapsed and died in his palace at Sofia.
  • Biljana Vankovska, Håkan Wiberg - "Between past and future: civil-military relations in the post-communist Balkans", 2003, I.B.Tauris, page 76 The Czar was named 'The Unifier" as a person who finally realized the age-old dreams.
  • Jean W. Sedlar - "The Axis Empire in Southeast Europe 1939-1945", 2007, page 79 ... and Tsar Boris III became known as the "King Unifier."

--StanProg (talk) 00:27, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

This is his official name after all - "Tzar Boris III the Unifier" (Bulgarian: Цар Борис III Обединител). An official name cannot be a POV, just like in Richard the Lionheart, the Lionheart is not a POV. --StanProg (talk) 00:37, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, he was called officially Unifier in the period 1941-1944, but the question is whether he is called that now. None of those sources prove that this is an official title now. Therefore there is still no evidence that this isn't just a POV term today. Kostja (talk) 07:13, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Of course that he is called that way now. The sources are recent, there are a lot of streets, boulevards, monuments, etc. called "Цар Борис III Обединител". The boulevard I cross every day have a monument of Tzar Boris (build after 1989) where it writes "Tzar Boris III the Unifier". I don't see how did you prove that it's not "widely accepted" name. Please, do not force your personal opinion on the matters, work with reliable sources. Take a look for example: [2]. --StanProg (talk) 10:59, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Also, please do not twist the provided sources. In the source by R. J. Crampton it's not pointed that he is called that way only "at the time". As you can see he is now called that way. What means that it's controversial? It is how he is called, and continues to be called. No controversy in this... or may be you have a reliable source for that? --StanProg (talk) 11:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
The source says he was dubbed the Unifier in 1941, when those territories became part of Bulgaria again, so saying "at the time" is correct.
That the city of Plovdiv decided to name an avenue with this name doesn't mean that he's accepted as such by today's historians; I could just as easily cite the "Boris the III" avenue in Sofia which does not use Obedinitel.
I agree that this title deserves mention in the article, but certainly not in the infobox or the first sentence of the lead, where it's inclusion implies an official character. It's also inappropriate for the list of Bulgarian monarchs, for the same reason. Kostja (talk) 12:38, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
I've added the name back to the lead, but in such a way that it's understood that this use is not universal. Kostja (talk) 12:42, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Compromise must be achieved at the talk page, please stop vandalizing the article. It seems we'll need administrators opinion on the matters.
# "at the time" means that only during that time he is called "the Unifier", which is not true, and supported by sources and facts
# It's not only the city of Plovdiv. I was talking about one of the main boulevards in city of Rousse
# This is the full name, widely used. Just like Simeon I the Great (Simeon I of Bulgaria), Richard the Lionheart (Richard I of England), and many others
# Please, provide reliable sources that this is not widely used, then we'll discuss it. Let's work with sources, not with personal opinions and POV pushing.
--StanProg (talk) 13:50, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Please do not level unfounded accusations at me. Vandalism is something very specific, see here.
The important thing is that, except for the decision of the Plovdiv city (much more rightwing than Bulgaria in general, I might add) you have given no sources that this is an accepted title today. For this reason, while this style needs to be mentioned in the article it can't be included in the infobox or lead sentence, but only as an alternate name, which is a compromise. And as you are pushing for inclusion of this information, the burden is up to you to provide evidence.
By the way, I didn't find any evidence that such an avenue exists in Ruse. Might have to give another source for this.
You have now reverted this article three times. Please don't do it again or you could be blocked. Kostja (talk) 14:04, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
I do not wish to participate in your edit wars. Your behaviour is reported at [3]. Regards! --StanProg (talk) 15:02, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
You do not wish to participate in my edit wars?! You started the edit warring and are inflaming the discussion by unfounded accusations of vandalism and yet they are my edit wars? Please try to be a bit more consistent. Kostja (talk) 15:32, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Calendar?[edit]

Which calendar are we using for his birthdate? The Julian was in use in Bulgaria at that time. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 06:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Traindriving[edit]

Why is there nothing about the train-driving ? It's the only thing anyone of my generation might know about King Boris.Eregli bob (talk) 05:20, 3 October 2012 (UTC)