Talk:Boston Marathon bombings

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Please use section editing when adding to avoid edit conflicts.

This attack needs uniformity with the 1999 David Copeland attack in the UK as a standard.[edit]

A bomb goes off from a source attacking the public, because of a political/religious agenda.

I just described both attacks.

They are exactly the same thing, and frankly they both need to be viewed as such. Lets have some uniformity here. Call them both terrorism/mass murder or neither.

Given the discussion in Talk:David Copeland#Not a terrorist..., i.e. Copeland was tried for murder not for terrorism, and that I can't find any reliable sources calling it "mass murder", I'm inclined to think that "neither" is the correct choice for Wikipedia-POV writing, except in reference to specific laws which specifically define terrorism, which don't exist in this case. And, relative to this position, the article is pretty good at not using the term "terrorism", outside of quotes, except for the "attack type" infobox entry, which I changed to lone wolf. There's also Category:Terrorist incidents in the United States in 2013; I'm thinking that should probably turn into a "Lone Wolf Incidents" category (there's a long list of links on the lone wolf page which can move into there), but I'm too lazy to do that. Finally, there's Portal:Terrorism; I'm going to pass on judging that, since WP:ALSO is pretty vague. In terms of structural uniformity, I think editing the Copeland article to match this one's layout would be a better idea than the reverse; this one has been edited and restructured dozens of times, and has 500+ sources, while Copeland has <500 edits and relatively little information. --Mathnerd314159 (talk) 18:21, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
I undid you edits to Boston Marathon bombings as the article you linked to describes a person not an act. Therefore lone wolf is not the type but would be an acceptable description of the perpetrators. XFEM Skier (talk) 18:18, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
So, from headlines like "Holder fears 'lone wolf' terrorist attack", it seems to me like "lone wolf" can indeed be an attack type. Yes, the lone wolf article doesn't reflect this, but that article has a bunch of other problems (e.g. the giant list of links) so I'm not really convinced. --Mathnerd314159 (talk) 18:33, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
More headlines if you aren't convinced: "Experts seek clues in London 'lone wolf’ attack", "Obama: 'Lone Wolf' Attack is Biggest Concern", etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mathnerd314159 (talkcontribs) 18:45, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Can you clarify what exactly are the changes to this article that you are proposing? AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:49, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Well, to this article, just But then I probably will rewrite the "Lone Wolf" article; I haven't really decided on the changes there. --Mathnerd314159 (talk) 18:55, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
'Lone wolf' seems normally to be a description applied to individuals acting alone - which isn't the case here. And we don't use Wikipedia articles as sources anyway. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:11, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
From what I can tell, "lone wolf" was coined to contrast with large terrorist organizations, e.g. even the low estimates on Al-Qaeda#Field_operatives have >100 people, so in this case the 2 people or whatever is still "small" enough for "lone wolf" to apply. Also, Wikipedia wasn't my source, my source was [1], which says "The devices used in the Boston Marathon attack Monday are typical of the 'lone wolf'". If you want I could use more recent sources like [2] , where the source states flatly "This ... is called 'lone wolf' terrorism—it's not attached to any organization", or [3], "The al-Qaida magazine Inspire has published a special edition ... warning the West of more 'Lone Wolf' terrorist attacks." By my count, that's 3 reliable sources using the term "lone wolf" to refer to the attack type of the bombings. Edit: and here's an exact answer to your question: "Whether “lone wolves” can logically come in pairs, the Boston perpetrators fit the category." --Mathnerd314159 (talk) 22:52, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Apparently, this is the place to discuss this. Seems a few months old and indirectly related, but good enough, I guess.
If we have the perpetrator saying it was revenge, and nobody saying it was terrorism or even positing political coercion goals, we're in no place to call it terrorism. That's original research, plain and simple. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:05, September 19, 2014 (UTC)
You're entirely mistaken if you think what the suspect says matters. Here's a source describing it as terrorism as recently as today. [4]. Or this one written soon after the attack[5]. Or the federal indictment, which alleges the suspect "committed the offense after substantial planning and premeditation to cause the death of a person and commit an act of terrorism" [6]. Calidum Talk To Me 00:33, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Conspiracy Theories[edit]

Um... I'm pretty sure there were a ton of conspiracy theories around this event. Could someone please mention that in the article?

Thanks. (talk) 01:23, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

There are a ton of conspiracy theories around virtually every event; are there any here that are particularly noted (that is, reported on in reliable sources)? That's the bar that needs to be met for them to be included. Writ Keeper  01:26, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Infowars goes into great detail about. That's a reputable and pretty renown news network. (talk) 01:18, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

I just checked it out, Infowars is a conspiracy theory website. When we mean sources we are talking about things like AP, CNN, BBC, New York Times, ect... the majority of conspiracy theories are also non notable. Even if the theory is notable on one side those who believe it then it would need to have counterbalance with reliable sources debuking it in order for the section to be WP:NPOV. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:29, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Infowars is not a "news network." It's a conspiracy theory website. For wikipedia purposes, it is not considered a reliable source. WP:RS can give you a more thorough explanation of what type of sources to use. In this case, you might also want to read the guidelines at WP:FRINGE. Thanks! --Loonymonkey (talk) 20:49, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Supposedly it's a false flag event with a friend of the Tsarnaev brothers being "assassinated" by the FBI with FBI being sketchy about the friend's death to cover up FBI involvement. Mother and wife of friend have evidence that renders the official version moot. This also casts doubt on "verifiable sources" because they only reflect official police and FBI statements. This thus is not an Islamic terrorist plot. This is most likely a coverup to hide entrapment by federal agents and police. The only time the FBI stated truth was when they said they didn't have any suspects. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:29, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

- i agree that there a lot of some ground in these conspiracy theories to be mentioned, we all saw pictures in the web about these guys with the skull signs this video sums a lot of stuff up imo why there are so much people believing it was a conspiracy--Crossswords (talk) 23:39, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Second Boston Massacre[edit]

I would like to add this to the article at the end of the first paragraph:

"This attack became known as the Boston Marthon Bombings but has been reffered to by some as the Second Boston Massacre <five references to the Second Boston Massacre including a speech by Allen West where he refers to it as such> in reference to the [Boston Massacre] of 1770."

I don't see what the issue is with stating the fact that it has been referred to as the Second Boston Massacre as it indeed has been referred to by some as the Second Boston Massacre. Yet My edits continue to be reversed stating that my sources aren't reputable. Though in all my sources it is referred to as the Second Boston Massacre. It is not as if it is some major fact that completely changes things, it is merely that it has been referred to by another name which, regardless of how reputable the five sources may be, is true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:09, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

It is true that the sources you link have referred to the event as the 'Second Boston Massacre'. You have provided no evidence whatsoever that this is in any way of significance to the article though. I'm sure I could find headlines referring to the events under multiple different titles - but we don't list them all. Why should we? This is an article about the events themselves, not what they have been described as. We don't fill serious articles with trivia. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:22, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
It's a dumb, throwaway headline, nothing more. Tarc (talk) 23:23, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Rolling Stone Cover[edit]

The contribution that I would like to make surrounds the controversial decision for Rolling Stone to put Dzhokhar Tsarnaev on the cover of their August 2013 issue. The lead article gives at length details of Tsarnaev’s childhood, teenage years and the subsequent steps that led to his horrific decisions. Although the article was written tastefully and exemplified outstanding journalism, the result was a resounding outcry, particularly from Boston and the surrounding New England area. The image they chose can be depicted as glamorizing or romanticizing him. It is eerily reminiscent of an issue with Jim Morrison of the Doors for example, essentially associating Tsarnaev as a rock star. [1] National companies such as CVS and Walgreen’s, as well as a host of smaller local New England companies, elected not to sell the issue as an act of protest. In the end, the demonstration of these companies failed as Rolling Stone sold more than twice as many issues for the month of August. Many felt that the victims should be the ones to grace the cover, as opposed to the killer. Rolling Stone later defended it's decision to release the issue by referencing their legitimacy in the journalistic realm. [2] It’s a compelling argument that I feel should be included with the Wikipedia article. Bscantland08 (talk) 20:13, 11 August 2014 (UTC)bscantland08Bscantland08 (talk) 20:13, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

It's already discussed at Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev#Rolling Stone magazine. Location (talk) 20:27, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
It's worth a few sentences here, too, with a Wikilink to the long version there. The hubbub was somewhat localized, but since the bombing was a hot topic in America and quite warm elsewhere, the coverage of the hubbub was significantly larger.
For what it's worth (not much), I agree with Rolling Stone's choice. Would people in general have even recognized the victims' faces? None are even notable enough for Wikipedia, let alone one of the world's biggest celebrity magazine's cover. The news made the Tsarnaevs celebrities first, Rolling Stone just capitalized. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:29, August 11, 2014 (UTC)