|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Brasília article.|
|Brasília has been listed as a level-4 vital article in Geography. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as C-Class.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
|Help to improve articles related to Brazil in Simple English Wikipedia. If you are not fluent in English, that is the right place.|
|A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day... section on April 21, 2004, April 21, 2005, April 21, 2006, April 21, 2007, April 21, 2009, April 21, 2010, and April 21, 2011.|
- 1 Mosque???
- 2 Population and Ranking
- 3 Old discussion
- 4 Infrastructure
- 5 Population and communications?
- 6 Plano?
- 7 City Planning
- 8 More on planning
- 9 How many administrative regions
- 10 population of brasilia?
- 11 Map and more photos
- 12 Satelite cities
- 13 Climate
- 14 Nightlife and links
- 15 Breathless Intro text
- 16 New intro...
- 17 References
- 18 Capital?
- 19 And what about corruption?
- 20 Vandalized?
- 21 Removal of Supreme Court section
- 22 Problem with opening paragraphs
- 23 Link Cleanup
- 24 History?
- 25 Planned and relocated capitals worldwide?
- 26 Brasília and Brazilian Federal District
- 27 1957L ?
- 28 Not a Range
- 29 Pronunciation
- 30 largest city in the world that did not exist at the beginning of the 20th century
- 31 Broken Source
- 32 Brasília vs Federal district
- 33 Founded
What is the point of including the (bad) picture of a mosque in this entry? Yeah we all know how good and peaceful Islam is and that Mohammad didn't rob, kill, and raped anybody. But what is the value of that picture for Brasilia? It should be deleted or replaced with a more informative picture, like a bus stop or a traffic light. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 22:49, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
The picture is not a mosque. It's the cathedral of Brasília. It have a different design, projected by the architect Oscar Niyemayer. SAY NO TO THE PREJUDICE --Dfdc (talk) 14:35, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Population and Ranking
"It has a population of about 2,557,000 as of the 2008 IBGE estimate, making it the fourth largest city in Brazil, ahead of Belo Horizonte and Fortaleza. However, as a metropolitan area, it ranks much lower at ninth."
Actually, the population of Brasilia's metropolitan area is of 3,599,000. So, there is no point in saying that, as a metropolitan area, it ranks much lower at ninth. According to that List of urban agglomerations by population (United Nations), it ranks as the sixth largest metropolitan area in Brazil, and the 84th largest urban agglomeration in the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 23:42, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
- The city population (2 789 761) was already updated. The metro area I had update each municipality from Região Integrada de Desenvolvimento do Distrito Federal e Entorno and sum the populations to achieve this number (4 041 042). I updated the density as well. All from the IBGE 2013 estimative.ZackTheJack (talk) 14:42, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
- (Entry has been updated -- thanks Joao) -
......................................................................................................................................................... Hi I live in Brasilia, I liked the page,it was cool when i found it at january 15 2004, but I made some changes on it. Not all public buildings are nyemeyers, and the city plan was widely based on Le Corbusier ideas, so i thought it was fair to mention him. There is no lack of sidewalks in Brasilia, since the begginnings it was decided the sidewalks would be built where people walked on, leaving a track in the grass.
You can find me at firstname.lastname@example.org. My name is Mauricio Manco. user:manco ..............................................................................
Hello Mauricio, I disagree with You about the sidewalks. Usually the books that criticize Brasilia when it was still being built (60s and 70s). There are lots of places where there are no sidewalks, for example the embassy sectors. Dionisio email@example.com É claro que faltavam calçadas nos anos setenta, elas seriam construidas, e foram, em muitos lugares mas nem todos. Elas são construídas onde o povo anda a pé. Of course there was a lack of sidewalks in the seventies, they where to be built, and they was, in a lot of places but not ALL of them. They are built where people usually walk on.(manco)
- For all Brasilia residents (and even more for the Satellite-Cities residents) it's clear that the city wasn't planed for walkers. There's a big distance between places of interest (and need) and the sidewalks are not a beautiful view (either lacking, cracked or else not covering the best way, most of the time). At the other hand, some Brasilia residents like me and Mauricio Manco really know how fun and interesting can it be to walk along the wings (north or south one). Brasilia is a place of contradictions, but as put by Tom Robbins in his book Villa Incognito, "what city is not"? danielduende 19:58, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I made a small correction: the 1891 Brazilian constitution was Brazil's first REPUBLICAN constitution. There was a previous Imperial constitution dating from 1824 or thereabouts.
On 04/08/2004 I rewrote the article adding much more information and trying to give a more realistic and personal picture of the city, one that you couldn't get in Encarta or the Encyclopedia Britannica. There were some serious problems with the English and the organization of what I found and I tried to adapt that without throwing out the whole thing.
The unsourced claims about energy consumption use the units GWh, is this then stating the cumulative consumption and not the consumption rate? Or is this GWh/year or is this just unsourced garbage? GBMorris 19:37, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Population and communications?
Ponha-se no lugar de quem vai ler esse artigo. Para que o artigo seja lido, deve conter informações que interessem ao leitor. O inglês em que o artigo foi escrito é primário, duvido que um dia esse artigo seja um featured article. Peço ajuda dos colegas para juntos reescrevermos a página de cima a baixo.
Place yourself on the shoes of the reader. If we want people to read our article, we must give the reader valuable information. The english is poor, I doubt this article will be featured as it is.I ask my fellow wikipedians for help so we can rewrite the whole article.
A pagina em portugues tambem esta incompleta. I agree that the English is not proper written.
I agree, even though I have added a few things off and on to try to improve it and I have corrected some of the English. As I found this article on 27 November 2005 there were serious problems with not only the English but with some statements. What is the factual basis for the statement that Lucio Costa designed Brasilia without traffic lights only because his wife had been killed in one? That sounds like an urban legend to me. The reason is probably more likely to be found in the more pragmatic desire to create a city that was a break with the traditional one, which had traffic lights. I got rid of the statement because it certainly does not help the article and it is mentioned again further on in the article. I lived in Brasilia for twenty years and I never heard that explanation, which does not necessarily mean it could not have any basis of course. But to affirm such a thing we need a reputable source.
Ray Vogensen firstname.lastname@example.org
I think that the translation of "Plano Piloto" is incorrect, but I don't know whether it should be "Pilot Plain" or "Pilot Plane" instead. I think that both are correct translations, and one of the translations makes a good pun, but I am unsure of how Brasilians mean this phrase. Plain = geographic feature, Plane = flat geometric feature
What about Pilot Plan? It's a planned city afterall.
- If we would go for an exact translation, i would drop the word Pilot for something else... like Main, First or Core, words that are closer to the original meaning of "Piloto". On the other hand, the translation of Plano as Plan (and not Plain or Plane) is a very good idea. danielduende 19:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
- "Pilot Plan" is the most direct translation of "Plano Piloto" and the "pilot" part gives it the double entendre that's present in the Portuguese phrase. The double meaning inplied by "plane" is not an accurate translation because aeroplane in Portuguese is "avião" (from ave, meaning bird, + -ão, the augmentive suffix in Portuguese). And when "piloto/a" is used as an adjective, it is usually talking about a initiative, project or plan. Morganfitzp 15:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Morganfitzp is correct. And so is Ninguem (sinto muito, I don't have an acute on my American keyboard). When my Brazilian wife wants to go into town, she says, "Let's go to plano piloto." American In Brazil (talk) 00:57, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
The end of the article says that the city is constantly under construction. Is that true???? A city constantly being under construction sounds Too Good To Be True. Besides, if that is indeed the case, sooner or later, it'll turn the planet into an Ecumenopolis, like Coruscant.It is the first all new modern city.
To reply, please leave a message in my User Talk. Feel free to type your reply onto this page too.
- As a matter of fact Brasilia is "constantly under construction", really. There is still a lot of vacant spaces for building and there is a lot of things that were planned but never built, until now. Our actual governor, Joaquim Roriz has a personal taste for building big, flashy and severely over-budgeted things too. Our subway system was more expensive to build than the Rio de Janeiro subway system (that is at least 6 times bigger and way better). Maybe someday, being a "constantly under construction" city, Brasília overtakes all the space and become some kind of "Ecumenopolis", but this day is very far indeed. Brasília is, in the way we like to refer to it, the "largest small town of Brasil, and a very strange and fascinating one". I would reply to your talk-page, but i don't know who are you. :) danielduende 19:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Oh. I'm Shultz. --Shultz 07:02, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Daniel Duende and Shultz: Even years after your comments, Brasilia is a city still under construction. There remain large tracts of land on the outskirts where condos, apartments, office buildings and shopping malls are being built. Brasilia is a work in progress. American In Brazil (talk) 01:07, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
More on planning
I noticed that there was no mention of the fact that this was a "planned" city that is known for its "form over function". I remember a quote from a TV special I saw when I was in college where it was referred to as a "Gerry built nowhere, infested with Volkswagons"... It would be nice if someone with city planning background could cover these issues.
I think that you should translate to English the original Lucio Costa´s plan that won the competiton. It can be found here: http://aprender.unb.br/mod/resource/view.php?id=23561 The original plan discuss the car/pedestrian issue, for example. It´s very important to merge Lucio´s plan to a new section of the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 14:41, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
How many administrative regions
I'm review this diff. How many administrative regions are there in the federal district? There seem to be 26 states and the federal district of Brasilia. And within the federal district, there are 28 regions, not 29. Has this changed recently?? Please cite sources. Thanks for clarification.--Muchosucko 14:19, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
There is a problem with the whole article, in that it can't decide whether "Brasília" means the huge city which is Brazil's capital, or just the central area (Plano Piloto) that constitutes its First Administrative Region (if it is the latter, it does not have 2,000,000 inhabitants, but just about 250,000. If the former, then it includes the satellite cities, and, in fact, all of the Distrito Federal~). Ninguém (talk) 01:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I believe ´Brasilia´ means the city proper, of which Plano Piloto is the central district, whereas the satellite cities (or ´suburbs´ as we would say in English) constitute the metro area. The metro area probably incorporates the entire Distrito Federal, so the population of the DF plus Brasilia is the metro population. There are a number of large satellite cities, such as Planaltina, Samambaia, Aguas Claras, Taguatinga, Ceilandia, Paranoa and Sobradinho where I live. I have tried to make this distinction in the article by conforming the info box to the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by American In Brazil (talk • contribs) 14:39, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
population of brasilia?
it is very odd that the population or demographic information is not included in this entry. I was browsing on Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo and one can find almost any facts and figure on it but not for brasilia. From Instituto Brasileiro de Geografia e Estatistica http://www.ibge.gov.br/the 2004 estimated population is 2,282,049.
- It's even more odd that the article cites two different populations, without explaining. The number you just cited does not match the larger one used in the first sentence of the page. -22.214.171.124 02:55, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Visik 05:50, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Map and more photos
Brasilia is so interesting in that it's completely unlike any other Brazilian city. This article would benefit from a map illustrating the original plan and some more photos, particularly depicting all the green space that the city is known for. Morganfitzp 15:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I have a lot of photos of Brasilia but I don't know how to upload to wikipedia. --Paulomsr 21:30, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Morganfitzp. The photo's that are present are extremely good and more would add to the article. Given Brasilia's special planning a map is crucial.126.96.36.199 13:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Map still needed
Well, three years after the above comments, the article now seems to have great pictures, but is still missing a map. In particular the last paragraph of the Background section, describing the main routes of the city, would be much easier to take in with a visual aid. Emika22 (talk) 05:12, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
I've added links to some of the mentioned satelite cities. If anyone knows something about the satelite cities, please add an article about them.--Googleplex5 00:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
The section on climate says that the average high temperatures vary by 3°C and the low temperatures by 5°C. These are incorrectly translated to 37°F and 41°F. I've tried editing these to the correct values of 5° and 9° respectively but my changes have been backed out. A temperature of 3°C corresponds with 37°F but a temperature difference of 3°C is only 5°F!
Kevin, October 2006.
The text in Climate section disagrees with the accompanying table. Somebody who has access to actual data should clean up that section. Thanks in advance.Raymondwinn (talk) 21:38, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
The colours used in the weatherboxes
User:Subtropical-man has repeatedly removed the green colours for the precipitation colour and stating that the blue colouring is standard on wikipedia. Although the blue colouring is the default colour, the blue colouring can cause a blending of colours if record lows and humidity and precipitation days are added in. it also leaves the false impression of a cold, rainy, and damp climate in places that are not so cold in the winter like Brasilia. I think there should be a discussion on this.Ssbbplayer (talk) 19:54, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
I rewrote the nightlife section, which was short and inaccurate. Brasília does have stuff to do! Also, I added a link to the Convention and Visitors Bureau, and removed a duplicate link to the wikitravel page --Jully 19:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Breathless Intro text
Reading the Introduction text, you'd think this is the best city in the world, looked up to by the rest of the world, as a shining example of mankind's city-building, instead of just some architect's wet dream planted in the jungle. I know Brazilians are a proud people, but can somebody re-write with a bit less hyperbole, and a bit more NPOV?
The intro was rewritten, but it was written in a horribe excuse for grammer and said the population was 5 million. So I fixed those errors 'wikified' the intro to make it more encyclopedic.
Ive re-written the intro again - mentioning the fact that Brasilia houses the government, something quite important, dont you think? And also made it even less breathless...
Danielimb3bacon 18:17, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
This site currently lists only one source. May I suggest: James Holston’s The Modernist City: An Anthropological Critique of Brasília; James C. Scott's Seeing Like A State, specifically Chapter 4 The High Modernist City: An Experiment and A Critique. (188.8.131.52 20:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC))
Hi, actually isn't it Rio the capital of Brazil? I think you all are doing a big mistake.
Rio? Haha, no no. Rio de Janeiro was the capital of Brazil from 1763 to 1960. After 1960 the capital was moved to Brasília.
I guess some people who don't read the paper might have missed the news that the capital was moved.
And what about corruption?
Isn't Brasília the world's corruption capital?
I grew up in Chicago and I'll nominate my hometown as the world's most corrupt. We had the best politicians money could buy. But now that I live in Brasilia, I feel right at home. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 01:00, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
The economy section seemed to be gutted and replaced with whitespace and a couple slashes. Editing mistake or vandalism? I reverted the last edit to replace the missing text.
220.127.116.11 19:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Removal of Supreme Court section
The main section is about government palaces, so the section about the Supreme Court should discuss that (if the SC is indeed in a palace), not about the functions of the court. I rm'ed the section; hopefully, someone knowledgeable about the SC buildings in that area can contribute some good pertinent info. --SigPig |SEND - OVER 00:39, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Problem with opening paragraphs
I'm not sure how to change it for the best, perhaps just making a few deletions, but the opening paragraphs seem to discuss hotels an awful lot. This is a rather random subject to discuss with several sentences in the opening which should discuss the city generally. Any thoughs? --The Way (talk) 05:23, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I edited several sections today and edited out unneeded wikilinks - it is generally not necessary to wikilink common words like "traffic" and "city" and "law" in a general article, for example. There's also some room for cleanup of links to Brazilian governmental bodies such as the courts and so on. Left that for another editing session, but it's on my "to-do" list.Bishop^ (talk) 19:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Planned and relocated capitals worldwide?
Is there a list of planned or moved capitals?
One the characteristics of the relocation is to make the capital more central.
- Brazil - Brasilia
- Australia - Canberra
- Pakistan - Islamabad
- Nigeria - Abuja
- Tanzania - Dodoma
- Canada - Ottawa
- United States - Washington, DC
What's the difference between the two? Are they the same? I cannot tell by reading the two articles, although there are a lot of repetition between them. If they are the same (like Washington D.C. and District of Columbia), perhaps they should be merged? Chanheigeorge (talk) 04:45, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
- The Federal District is a legal entity with the same status as any other state in Brazil (has its own Governor, State police etc.). It comprised the city of Rio de Janeiro until 1960, when the capital moved to Brasília. Brasília is a name given to the current Federal District or, alternatively and less frequently, just to the most important areas therein. Another difference is that Brasília is called a city (cidade de Brasília) in popular parlance. I think Brasília should have its own article, since its conception and planning differ from that of the Federal District. Missionary (talk) 23:19, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi, In the 'History' section the text refers to '1957L' at the start. Is this a typo or a specific reference to the development of Brasilia? I'm hoping someone with better knowledge than I can correct or confirm why the text says '1957L'. Thanks, Mondegreen de plume (talk) 02:06, 16 November 2010 (UTC)x
Not a Range
"Average temperatures from September through April are a consistent 22 °C (72 °F). Those, however, are monthly averages; temperatures sometimes fall outside of this range." 72 degrees is not a "range" but a single temperature. And is it really necessary to state that an average temperature does not mean that that is always the temperature? GeneCallahan (talk) 17:05, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
I removed the sentence that temperatures often fall outside the average. Is there anywhere in the world where they do not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by American In Brazil (talk • contribs) 23:59, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
The transcription seems to be of the Portuguese pronunciation. It's in brackets but isn't it a broad transcription? In some English-language articles, it's made clear when a transcription is of the pronunciation in the local language. An English transcription would be useful too. Is the S a /s/ or a /z/? Is the penultimate sound /i/ or /j/? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 12:14, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
The spelling is 'Brasilia' in both Portuguese and English. However, in Portuguese there is a stress mark (acute) over the first 'i' to conform to the Portuguese Language Orthographic Agreement of 1990 that if a word ends in 'a', 'e', 'o', 'em' or 'ens' (the plural of 'em' as in 'homens' - men), the stress is on the penultimate (sometimes called the ´anti-tabulum´), or next-to-last syllable, as you note, UNLESS there is an acute, in which case the stress is on the acuted syllable. Portuguese is a highly stressed language, like English. A single 's' in the middle of a word is sounded like the English 'z', hence the English spelling of the country 'Brazil' (´Brasil´ in Portuguese) and the pronunciation of 'Brasilia' with a 'z' sound. The 'i' in Portuguese is sounded like 'ee' in English without exception, as in the English word 'machine' (which is from French - oh, those Normans). Gosh, there sure are a lot of rules! But rather than trying to memorize them, the best way to learn the correct pronunciation is simply to listen carefully to the word and repeat it - which is how you learned English. Just say: bra-ZEEL-ya. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 03:16, 22 April 2013 (UTC) American In Brazil (talk) 01:16, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
largest city in the world that did not exist at the beginning of the 20th century
I don't think that is the case.
Shenzhen was not founded until 1979, and currently has a population of 3.5 million, and over 10 million metropolitan, quite a bit bigger than Brasilia. You could call the town of <1000 people that was there before a city, but that's nitpicking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 16:32, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
- Shenzen has been menitoned by name in historical records since 1410. It was the designation as SEZ that took place in 1979. -- megA (talk) 08:59, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Brasília vs Federal district
Nationally, the term is almost always used synonymously with the Federal District, which constitutes an indivisible Federative Unit, analogous to a state. Several "satellite cities" (suburbs) are also part of the Federal District.
Actually, when comparing both infoboxes, figures are the same. Though the map suggests Brasília would be only a small part of the district, the area is still given the same in both. The population figures are also close to each other, so that rules out the error in the area figure. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 02:48, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
The map shows the administrative region of Brasília as opposed to the city (which encompasses the entire federal district). Maybe we should disambiguate between the two? Someone the Person (talk) 05:47, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
The city of Brasilia does not encompass the entire Distrito Federal. It is the largest municipality of the DF, but there are several other "satellite cities" (suburbs) which are independently governed, such as Planaltina, Ceilandia, Taguatinga, Aguas Claras, Samambaia, Paranoa and Sobradinho, where I live. In short, the DF is a metro area like any other. American In Brazil (talk) 01:33, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
- This article should be about the city, but the infobox has the whole district's figures. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 18:05, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
The info box conforms with the info boxes for other large cities which show the populations of both the city and its metro area. See, for example, Chicago or Washington DC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by American In Brazil (talk • contribs) 19:41, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
- The infobox has the area of whole Capital District, with no figure for just the city, if such exists. Also population figure seems to be of whole district, at least it divided by whole area when calculating the density. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 05:42, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
It was founded on April 21, 1960, to serve as the new national capital.
Rome wasn't build in a day... I doubt Brasília was either. Is this trying to say that it was officially declared the capital on that day?
Yes, that was the day that Brasilia was officially declared the national capital and the federal government was transferred from Rio de Janeiro. The city was under construction for 44 months prior to that date and only government buildings were constructed. Since then Brasilia has grown to a major city and continues to be a work in progress. --American In Brazil--