Talk:British–Irish Council

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Scots Language[edit]

Scots Language. There is only one Scots Language! See: (http://ww2.eblul.org:8080/eblul/Public/member_state_committ/british_committee/uk2/view)

The european charter from the Council of Europe(http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/Commun/ListeDeclarations.asp?NT=148&CV=1&NA=&PO=999&CN=999&VL=1&CM=9&CL=ENG) "b) The United Kingdom declares, in accordance with Article 2, paragraph 1 of the Charter that it recognises that Scots and Ulster Scots meet the Charter's definition of a regional or minority language for the purposes of Part II of the Charter." NOTE: _a_ regional or minority _language_ not two separate ones.

The North/South Co-operation (Implementation Bodies) Northern Ireland Order 1999 defines 'Ulster Scots' as "the variety of the Scots language which has traditionally been used in parts of Northern Ireland and in Donegal in Ireland."

The Good Friday Agreement doesn't even use the qualifier 'language' when mentioning Ulster Scots: (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/peace/docs/agreement.htm) "3. All participants recognise the importance of respect, understanding and tolerance in relation to linguistic diversity, including in Northern Ireland, the Irish language, Ulster-Scots and the languages of the various ethnic communities, all of which are part of the cultural wealth of the island of Ireland."

User:217.225.26.59, 01:19, Aug 22, 2004

Whilst this point is valid (yet POV, see my comments on Talk:UK and User talk:217.225.26.59), it's not relevant to this article. The British–Irish Council has nothing to do with the Scots language as spoken in Scotland and only deals with it as spoken in Northern Ireland (and the Wikipedia has a separate page for the language in that context at Ulster Scots language).
If you want to contest that the two language pages should be merged, then feel free to do so on the talk pages for the two language entries. As Ullans is a term used in governmental documents, though, personally, I doubt you would gain consensus to make such a change. Please do create an account so that your edits can be attributed, though, either way — it makes discussions such as these much easier to follow. — OwenBlacker 00:41, Aug 24, 2004 (UTC)

'Britsh Isles'[edit]

I have removed the term 'British Isles' from the article and replaced it with the UK, its Crown Dependencies and Ireland. Strand Three of the Agreement makes no reference to the term nor does the official British-Council website. The replacement sentence is more accurate and neutral.Iolar Iontach

I am going to add to the unoffical name of the Council area the term British Isles Council. The only reason that this council's offical name is not the British Isles Council is because of political correctness and many unionists in Northern Ireland use that name to refer to the Council as I do myself. The geographical area the Council represents is the British Isles and that is a FACT. Southern Irish and Irish nationalists have DELIBERATELY refused to understand that British Isles is a GEOGRAPHIC term ONLY and NOT a political one! The British Isles is just the correct name for the archipelago off the north coast of France and its sad because of PC that can't be the councils proper name! YourPTR! 18:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Biased Article in favor of Catholics![edit]

British-Irish Council may be the official name but it and Council of the Isles are heavily POV biased in favor of Nationalist sentiment. Unfortunately the Catholics have been allowed to run amok and name the Council rather than the majority of the British Isles citizens. It is so sad when PC is allowed to take over and for such a baffling and pathetic cause. All I want to do is add British Isles Council as an UNOFFICIAL name to give this article some balance from a Unionist perspective. Anyone who is not a Irish nationalist considers the Council to be and its proper name should be The British Isles Council. After all, that is the archipelago that the council has been set up to represent but every time I go to make this modest change it is reversed. Catholics have got there way with a innacurate name for the Council and now they wont let us unionists add our unofficial name of what the Councils name should be in our hearts. Where is the justice? YourPTR! 15:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

At no point in the councils website does it use the term British Isles Council and none of the major broadcasters use this term, and the article is merely a list of the organisations involved how on earth is this biased and POV --Barrytalk 14:23, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter whether the website uses the term or not. The whole world recognizes that Ireland is part of the British Isles. The area the Council covers is the British Isles. Everyone who is not a Irish nationalist feels the name should be British Isles Council and views it as such. It is only called British-Irish council to appease Irish Nationalists. The popularly held view of what the Councils name SHOULD be MUST be stated! How are we ever going to have a non-biased article on ANY page to do with the island of Ireland or the British Isles if only a slanted Irish Nationalist viewpoint is put accross? I am going to add BRITISH ISLES COUNCIL back to the unofficial names seeing as the only names this council is listed as now are IRISH NATIONALIST ONES! Hardly unbiased!YourPTR! 00:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Oh dear! Somone's getting confused between Catholics and Nationalists. Can you tell from here what the religion an editor is? - Alison 02:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


Does the "whole world" recognise that? Oh no, it isn't the whole world, as it doesn't include Irish Nationalists as you go on to state. Does the whole world have an interest in these miserable islands? Probably not. Was it set up to appease Irish Nationalists (is that referring to Northern Ireland Catholics, or all of us t'other side of the border too? Sorry to keep using apostrophes as I see you are unable to do so fully). No, it was set up to appease Unionists by creating a forum where British political entities would be in a large majority and so you could talk s**** to an even wider audience. Perhaps myself and my neighbours could set ourselves up as pretend sovereign states and beef up the Irish representation in this talking shop.

Now, why did I use the term "British political entities"? Well, neither the Isle of Man, nor the Channels Islands are in the UK. Geologically the Channel Islands are separate from Britain (or "The Mayenlawnd" as you chaps call it). Calling it the British-Irish Council demonstrates that it is composed of British and Irish political entities. If there was to be a sop to Irish Nationalists, this forum for you to vent your spleen and demonstrate your pretend importance wouldn't exist at all. I certainly have no wish to subsidise this drivel platform any more than I desire the handing over of €1bn to subsidise your BMW-saturated economy while concomitantly listening to you people and your indefatigable whining.

194.46.252.180 22:23, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Crown Dependencies[edit]

In the article, I had described Jersey, Guernsey and the IoM as "UK Crown Dependencies". I haven't researched the point but think this is a fair description because the opening sentence of the Crown Dependencies articles states: "The Crown Dependencies are possessions of The Crown in Right of the United Kingdom..." I think the UK Crown Dependencies description is therefore appropriate. Otherwise, if they are simply referred to as "Crown Dependencies" - what crown? Looking further I see the Guernsey and Jersey articles describe those areas as "British Crown Dependencies". I shall use that term if that has more consensus, although "UK" would seem more apt. give the above (in italics) with its reference to the UK. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 17:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The UK is but one of the possessions of the Crown in Right of the United Kingdom, of course - but British is correct. I've amended the link to point to British Islands which is a more helpful article in context than that of the UK. Man vyi (talk) 17:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Two points:
Here is the description of Crown Dependencies again: "The Crown Dependencies are possessions of The Crown in Right of the United Kingdom..." The reference is to the "United Kingdom", not "British".Why is the UK not more correct when these are possessions of the Crown "in Right of the UK"? No reference to "British" at all?
As for changing the "British" link from "UK" to "British Islands", I don't agree with that: Per the "British Islands" article the entire legal status of that term is as a short hand for the UK and the three CDs in an interpretation act. It is not a term with any constitutional meaning? These islands are connected with the corwn of the UK, not the "British Islands" - there is no Crown for any place called the "British Islands".
I'd be interested in your responses. Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redking7 (talkcontribs) 20:01, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
As the Crown Dependencies article states, "the dependencies are not part of the United Kingdom", so calling them UK dependencies is incorrect. The British Islands article at least helps explain to the reader how the Crown Dependencies are British without being part of the UK. "British" does not equal "UK" in all cases - but a link to British wouldn't necessarily be most helpful. Man vyi (talk) 05:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Your posting above does not address the questions I raised (maybe some one else might come across this and chip in?): (1) I never said the CDs were part of the UK. I said they were UK Crown Dependencies, which is what they are - they are dependencies of the UK crown. We can use "British" instead of "UK" as this is used on other articles but I was interested in having a reason - it appears I will not get one; (2) Giving a link to the "British Islands" is certainly wrong - as I said above, there is no "monarch of the British Islands"! That term is merely a shorthand-term in an Interpretation Act! Giving a "British Islands" link is simply not appropriate. By way of compromise, I will change the link to be a link to Monarch of the United Kingdom. At least there those who wish to know, can read further on how the UK monarch is the monarch of both her Kingdom and her Dependencies. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 20:03, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I was under the impression I had explained why the Crown Dependencies are not dependencies of the UK. And whether "British Islands" is a constitutional definition or a shorthand term is a matter of viewpoint, I suppose - it's certainly what's printed on the cover of my passport, for example. However, Monarchy of the United Kingdom is certainly useful - and would have been my first choice after The Crown if I hadn't been chary of such tangential piped links. Man vyi (talk) 20:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I have to admit, I did not know that "British Islands" appears on the front covers of Jersey and Guernsey passports. I had seen it on the British Islands page but thought it an inaccuracy as its not sourced. Clearly, it was correct as you have one. Still I think we agree the monarchy link is probably best. Interestingly, to complicate matters, I understand "UK" rather than "British Islands" appears on IoM passports which appears to indicate some distinction between the IoM Crown dependency and the other two. I do not know the reason for the distinction. I think I will ask on the IoM talk page. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 22:25, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Yet more tedious edit-warring re. Republic of Ireland[edit]

Surely in this article, the need to distinguish between Ireland and the Republic of Ireland is glaringly obvious? Why the phobia about Republic of Ireland - it's a necessary disambiguator in an article relevant to the whole island. Mooretwin (talk) 15:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

To avoid repeating everywhere, I'll put a response on your Talk page. --HighKing (talk) 16:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Cornwall[edit]

Cornwall has been voted in this year as an observer member. All I can find at the moment are news stories about the attempt to become a member. e.g.[1] Bodrugan (talk) 09:22, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Scots Gaelic[edit]

In the section on minority regional languages, scots gaelic is not mentioned. Why? 80,000 speakers, a lot more than ulster scots, and scotland is a country, so why is it not included?> political bias?it should be —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.78.15.183 (talk) 13:26, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Er, Scottish Gaelic is clearly there in the listing. Did you perhaps overlook it? Man vyi (talk) 14:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

The Introduction[edit]

This was horribly unclear. The WHOLE POINT of the BIC was to introduce safeguards towards devolution in the UK without causing a battle between Unionists and Nationalists as back in the 1970s when the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland had to take control of the NI Assembly due to the conflict. Therefore it is VERY IMPORTANT to specify that the governments of THE REPUBLIC of Ireland (not just "Ireland", that is a geographical term) are members alongside Westminster Parliament and its three devolved bodies: the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly and the Northern Ireland Assembly. The part about Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man was correct.

I see there is a lot of conflict on this talk page with regards to this subject. This isn't even remotely difficult to deduce. It is on the FRONT PAGE of BIC's website: http://www.britishirishcouncil.org/

The text reads as follows; "The Council was created under the Agreement reached in the Multi-Party Negotiations in Belfast in 1998 to promote positive, practical relationships among its Members, which are the British and Irish Governments, the devolved administrations of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.76.15 (talk) 21:22, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

British Isles template[edit]

A editor has raised the question of removing the ability to pipe link the title of the British Isles template. Currently, on this page, it pipe links as [[British Isles|The British Isles - or Great Britain, Ireland & the Isle of Man]]. The editor would like this ability to be removed.

Discussion is taking place here. --RA (talk) 08:44, 13 September 2010 (UTC)