Talk:Browser game

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Archive

Response to WP:MEDCAB Request[edit]

(Same message left at Talk:List of browser games, involved parties may decide primary location of discussion.)

Hi all, I'm Soltak and I'm here in response to the request for mediation made by Moocats here.

First, let me say that this process is informal and non-binding. My job is to mediate and try to reach a consensus that leaves everyone happy. I won't be offering any opinions unless directly asked for one. Instead, I'll be pointing out various Wikipedia policies and guiding the discussion.

The problem here appears to revolve around various edits and reverts made to List of browser games and Browser game. What I'd like to see below is each party cited in the request (Moocats and User:Jasonblake69) explaining their side of the issue. Please remember to be civil and avoid personal attacks. Soltak | Talk 19:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Browser games[edit]

Browser games is the first article I really got involved with and felt I could contribute something to. I made a few minor adjustments over time and generally try to keep the spammers away. Recently however there has been a discussion as to what should be excluded under the "External Links" section. I at first thought it would be ok (especially since I used mpogd.com) to keep "directory" listing sites under the external links. However, with some research I have found that most commonly only ONE directory listing is allowed. I removed the links and added an article I researched and found to be in direct relation with browser based programming. User:Jason however believed this article to be "mine" somehow (I have NO association with it whatsoever) and deleted it on the basis that I must be spamming. I submit to you that this article [1] is a valid resource of information on browser based games including tutorials, programming hints, game design methods and forums which all contain information directly relating to web based games. I am not trying insert spam links and in fact my actions have been to keeps spam to a minimum. -Moocats 20:25, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Updates[edit]

I've seperated it into sections, plugin vs. server-side games. Removed all references to deleted article "Thin games" (this is the only place I've ever heard of it). Also cleaned up article content in general, tried to remove many repeating sentences saying the same idea over and over. Inserted comments about PHP due to the verifiable fact that a large majority are indeed written in PHP (a simple check of [2] or any other gamesite will verify this). I would like to see a history of some type, possibly with a screenshot of one of the open source games (Legend of the green dragon? Alien assault traders? Blacknova?). Also, the connection of gambling games should probably be in here as well, along with the small (possibly growing?) number of sites that offer actual prizes simply for playing the game. There might also be a place for those games that had people generate links for turns for their site simply to create traffic and they were spammed all over the web, remember that? They should get a place as well, annoying as they were. -Moocats 15:21, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Mediation Terminated[edit]

It is the nature of mediation that both parties must respond, discuss their views, and be willing make compromises. As User:JasonBlake69 has decided not to respond to the request for mediation, it is impossible for it to continue. I would note, however, that the disputed behavior mediation was intended to address has since ceased.

As only one party has responded to the MEDCAB request, mediation is terminated without prejudice. If both parties wish to engage in the process sometime in the future, I would be happy to officiate. Simply notify me on my talk page. Soltak | Talk 00:43, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your time, guess he just gave up or didn't care anymore. -Moocats 18:02, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I apparently spoke too soon, as soon as you left, he switched it back without discussion again :( -Moocats 18:20, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Comments on Web Game Builder[edit]

Web Game Builder

This site is one of the few sites I've found that deals directly with BBGs and their kind without trawling on about any specific game. It has multiple articles centered around building web based browser games. Despite not being updated in quite some time, it still harbors sufficient information for one to begin getting started on the "browser game" building path.

You (jason) note the article as spam however. I am unable to determine how you denote this as such as I believe it contributes directly to the articles content. If you would explain your reasons for the edit I would be happy to hear them. Also, edits do not always include a full summary of what was specifically edited because the comments are meant only to be a very brief summary as to what area was edited. I was not trying to "sneak" in another link, I just thought it would be helpful. :) -Moocats 16:03, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello Moocats, my apologies for the delay in response. Although the site you mentioned is useful for game developers, however it does not relate to this article directly. Perhaps, you and or I should create an article relating to Browser Game Development? For now Game development best suits the site you are trying to implement into this article.
The reason I assumed the link in question was a spam attempt was due to your suspicious behaviour; You persistently removed other valid/genuine links I added into this and other articles and blindly resorted to accusations against me (eg; You said I was the owner of MoFunZone.com).
You must realize, you don't have the authority to define what a browser game is or is not. To really think about it, there is no such thing (except those HTML games where you click on bunch of links). 99% of what is considered "browser games" use plug-ins to play and these plug-ins include but are not limited to: -Java -Flash -Shockwave(DCR) -ActiveX -Wiltangent -Toolbars.
Now, my question: Why did you remove my links which I strongly believe related to this article and replaced it with the above mentioned URL? Cheers --JasonBlake69 21:30 02 February 2006 EST
To answer your question first, wikipedia has a policy regarding external links which I was made aware of when people were editing back and forth over linkspam. The problem with external links is that although allowed without reservation there is one exception. List pages are not encouraged to be listed because there are so many of them and they are mostly proprietary (only one person has control over them). According to the list rules, only ONE page may be listed, giving preference to open directory (anyone can edit) type pages of lists. DMOZ is the only page I found to be an open directory, therefore according to the wiki policy it's the only LIST site that should be listed (tounge tied :) ).
As for the external link, while you are right that it could very well go under game development, wikipedia also states that it needs to be kept as specific to the article as possible. Generalization is not encouraged as this would lead to people summing up all things about say...Babe Ruth under the article Baseball Stars (I know this is an exageration, just trying to point out what I'm saying). If there were an article for Browser Based Programming I would indeed list it under there, however in accordance with their editing policy it does belong here as this is currently the most specific category to which it currently relates to (browser-based game programming is more closely related than just game programming). This is also the same reason that I will no longer remove Crimson Warfare from the list of browser games, because currently it is the most specific area to which it relates to and has no article of its own.
When an article for Crimson Warfare is made (I only assume it's a matter of time) it should be removed from that page and tagged with a "Flash Game" category tag which will automatically list it in the Flash game area. I will do the same when a "Browser based game programming site" becomes available (move my link to that page), however don't you agree it should stay here for the time being? -Moocats 12:40, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Hello Moocats, although you make a good point about the generalization, however having browser game development website link in an article titled "Browser game" would also be generalizing as well. In fact, I believe listing web sites with browser games in an article titled "Browser game" makes more sense. --JasonBlake69 21:34 04 February 2006 EST

Curious about updating[edit]

The article as it stands seems to be more stub than anything, wondering if anyone had considered, or is considering a more fleshed out extension to the article? Maybe a collaborative effort. I see Moocat has been active hereabouts ;).

For starters there seems to be a a split between server/client, but what about the other splits? Text vs Graphical 3d or 2d, range of plugins could use updating, bit of a favourable focus on PHP with no mention of reasonable alternatives (Ruby, ASP.NET, etc. - PHP is not the only large scale easy-to-use language), there are a few grammatical and spelling errors in need of correction. Where is text based mentioned???

"Browser games typically require a form of web browser plugin to function." - quote. Language is too strong, there are quite a lot of multiplayer server side technologies that actually refuse to impose plugin requirements. I don't like this paragraph since it seems to be stating a technology as insecure for no apparent reason. Whether that's true or not is questionable - it should be removed if only to keep the article on topic. You might as well state javascript, java, flash, X3D are all inherently insecure - not true.

I'm not out to simply "bash" the article - just interested in a larger extended version with a bit more in-depth descriptions. Anyone maintaining the article willing to colloborate? I'm a browser game developer myself (mainly PHP text based games) so its an interesting topic to see put up on Wikipedia. Dues to Moocats et al. who've added it.

--Maugrimtr 16:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

References[edit]

There are some claims, theories and conclusions drawn in the article that aren't supported by an external reference, in fact there aren't any references in the article.

  • Due to this fact, it allows users to more easily hack the code on their end, denying fair multiplayer gameplay, therefore a large majority of plug-in based games today are still single player.
    Is there a source for drawing this conclusion? Has there been a an article or study done on this to explain this away as the reason browser games are primariliy single player, or is there perhaps another reason for that?
  • A growing number of games are being created using server-side scripting.
    What is this based on? Are there any statistics available to support this claim.
  • One of the most common languages used to build server-side games is PHP due to its widespread community support and low learning curve.
    The theory that this is "One of the most common" has no source. Again, any statistics to support this claim?
  • Some include JavaScript or AJAX to allow the user to see immediate responses to their online actions and make the games more visually appealing.
    I've never personally found javascript to do that, nor does the description of AJAX indicate its usage is for visual reasons. It lists interactivity, speed and usability as its main uses.

These types of points are all covered under WP:OR and will need citations or cleanup.--Crossmr 20:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Issues/Criticism?[edit]

Perhaps there should be a section about the criticism about browser games? Most employers and schools disapprove of browser games because employees/students are easily able to access these sites (and the large number of gaming sites make them hard to block), thus creating distractions and lowering productivity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spinner2189 (talkcontribs)

Well it all depends if you can find verifiable and reliable references on the issue. If so, you can add it to the article. Otherwise, we'll have to leave it out for now. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 12:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Flash Games[edit]

Seeing as a majority of browser games nowadays are made using Flash, they should have their own page called "Flash game". Who's in favor say I. 65.92.124.239 (talk) 19:18, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Neigh. What could be said about them that would warrant an entire page? That would be like creating articles for "C++ games" or "Java games". — Frecklefσσt | Talk 23:12, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

We have lists of OpenGL/DirectX programs, and lists of QT/SDL/(Insert framework here). My annoyance is that "Flash games" is redirected automatically to "Browser games", ignoring that Flash applications is also frequently deployed without utilizing a browser. (examples of which i was looking for). --77.241.103.10 (talk) 13:05, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Open Web Games[edit]

I have an interest, over 10 years experience creating web games and resources for people with low literacy and or learning disabilities. Since not later than 1998 these have been designed to be accessible and conform to web standards and specifications. Flash, java and other plugins were not used. I understand this pages describes the fact of such games, but as faict fails to link to any external or internal resources or examples, whereas there are quite a number of Flash games included.

Recently Mozilla launched Game On, and had well over 100 entries, of which XGS hosted at http://www.peepo.com was one (mine). XGS can be played with a broad variety of input devices such as touchscreen, mouse, keyboard and hands free. Accessible Flash games are extremely rare, when found at all.

Why does the Browser game listing refer almost solely to Flash games?

Why is there no mention at all of accessibility?

Why were my edits removed?

Please dont just nod towards standards-built games, get out there, review and play a few, and include some relevant information.

Else this just appears to be a plug for Adobe Flash! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Signbrowser (talkcontribs) 18:57, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Your article was deleted because it did not indicate why its subject is important or significant. Subjects must meet our notability and verification requirements to warrant an article on Wikipedia. Even within articles, external links must meet out external links policy. I hope this helps. Cheers! Wyatt Riot (talk) 19:34, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
I agree though that we must be careful not to give the impression that all "browser games" use flash. Certainly a very large percentage of them do right now - but it's increasingly the case that you can use HTML5/canvas/WebGL/SVG to make games that run in a modern browser without Flash...and as the world slowly moves in that direction, so our article will need to change emphasis. (Incidentally, there were 160 non-flash browser-based games submitted to that Mozilla competition - that was culled to 120, then down to 35 finalists and ultimately to six category winners and one final winner). We have a screenshot from one of the finalists in our article. Another interesting development that we'll need to stay on top of is the rise of "app stores" for browser-based software (most of which will likely be games) - Google already have one up and running and Mozilla got their take on that running in prototype form just the day before yesterday! This is a rapidly changing picture and it's important that we keep the article abreast of it. SteveBaker (talk) 18:02, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Criticism[edit]

The criticism section is kinda strange... I mean, anything can be distracting in work environments, such as fm radio, daydreaming, masturbating, looking for car offers online, ... --80.187.106.223 (talk) 09:04, 18 November 2012 (UTC)