Talk:Buddhism and Christianity

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Merger-proposal #2[edit]

That's a thorough clean-up :) Joshua Jonathan (talk) 19:25, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but I was just getting started. It was mostly WP:OR. History2007 (talk) 19:34, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see a critical editor at work here. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 07:31, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. History2007 (talk) 08:43, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Ugh... but we also have Buddhism and Christianity and Buddhist influences on Christianity. Seems kinda nutso to have three articles on effectively the same topic. If you have time and energy, perhaps you could review and assess these three articles with an eye towards developing a strategy for integrating them. I can maybe imagine two articles but three seems excessive. --Pseudo-Richard (talk) 16:21, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

I think one article, by the time the WP:OR flies away. Whoever wrote those did not understand the difference between Wisdom literature and the NT... but then all it takes to edit this website is a modem and a heartbeat... I will try to trim and fit them to one article ge rid of self-published refs etc. Will not take much work. History2007 (talk) 16:41, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
This was copied from my talk page here. History2007 (talk) 16:43, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
I split those articles a while ago, because it was an aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawful long article. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 18:07, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, the past tense there is correct. It "was" long. But now that the WP:OR is going away.... History2007 (talk) 18:52, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Question to History2007 about the OR... did you simply delete anything that wasn't sourced or did you try and fail to find any reliable sources for the assertions? I was surprised to find that there was no mention of Nicolas Notovitch, Elizabeth Clare Prophet and her book "The Lost Years of Jesus: Documentary Evidence of Jesus' 17-Year Journey to the East". I'm not saying that any of that is "true". I'm just saying that it seems notable enough to be mentioned somewhere in Wikipedia. In general, I suspect that many of the assertions that have been purged as OR could be sourced if someone spent enough time and energy to track them down. Once again, it's all pretty fringe, non-mainstream stuff but that's not an issue if the material is sourced. --Pseudo-Richard (talk) 19:33, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Notovitch and E. C. Prophet are both mentioned in Jesus in Little Tibet as being junk. There are clear refs that say that. That needs to merge in too. I think it is 90% fringe material. History2007 (talk) 19:40, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Anyway, I added a simple section on differences here that shows the divergence begins at the core, i.e. with the concepts of God/theism/Grace - not minor issues in Christianity, but not mentioned here. Perhaps the weakest part of the Similarities between Buddhism and Christianity article is the juxtaposing of an ΙΧΘΥΣ with a wheel next to it and a supposed Chi Rho symbol (actually a Chi Rho has 6 lines not 8, go figure) to somehow do WP:OR that there are elements of the Eightfold Path in Christianity. That is pure WP:OR and totally incorrect. But there are other outdated things too, e.g. the page on history of the rosary has a complete discussion that shows there was no influence, and it was discussed on the talk page there at length, yet here some 100 year old statement by Charles Eliot (a colonial administrator and botanist!) is used as an assertion. Pretty hopeless in terms of scholarly value.... And the list goes on... History2007 (talk) 21:58, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
Now we have 4 articles, this page, Similarities between Buddhism and Christianity, Buddhism and Gnosticism and Jesus in Little Tibet whose title seems like a Wiki invention. I think the Gnosticism material should just stay by itself, it is a rummage sale of text I do not want to even contemplate touching. And Gnosticism is not representative of Christianity anyway, given that the Gnostics were rejected, kicked and called heretics almost from the get go. But the Jesus in Little Tibet can just be a section in Lost years of Jesus and a small mention here. By and large these were/are pretty low quality items, totally free of academic support, 19th century ramblings that no scholar supports any more, etc. - amazing how much junk floats here as an encyclopedia.... History2007 (talk) 07:37, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Eschatology[edit]

I added the sourced statement that:

There are also irreconcilable differences in the Christian and Buddhist beliefs regarding the End Times, and Christian Buddhist eschatology are generally seen as inherently incompatible. (sourced to the The Oxford Handbook of Eschatology by Jerry L. Walls (Apr 16, 2010) ISBN 0199735883 page 552)

but it was just removed by an IP with no explanation. I need an explanation for why it was removed, so that an WP:Edit war can be avoided. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 20:08, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Confused[edit]

I thought this would be a history of interaction between buddhists and christians.... but instead we have apparently

1. circa 500 BCE, Buddha born 2. circa 0 BCE, Jesus 3. circa 1100 BCE, first interaction

Surely there must be some more history in here? The Greeks who had invaded India contacted Buddhism and Greco Indian Buddhist artefacts are in Afghanistan. Of course, the early Bible writings are often found in Greek. And yet we have this 1000 year gap with no interaction between Buddhists and Christians?

The article itself appears to be an analysis of buddhism vs christianity, rather than a description of buddhists and christians. It is interesting but not exactly what I was expecting. Decora (talk) 14:03, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

There is a section called Buddhist influence on Christianity, and has a link to an article called influences. E.g. see Durant's 1930s suggestion that Ashoka's people were in Rome and started things in that article. But modern scholars do not buy that at all. If what you say is the case, you need to show sources for it. Of course Buddhists, Jews and and Christians may have walked past each other in markets in Rome at some point, but there is no solid evidence of an interchange of theology or teachings. A lot of people "guess" what you say (and some even manufactured stories about it), but most scholars say we do not have any solid evidence in hand, as the article states. So the rest is conjecture, and in fact most scholars even directly reject those conjectures as teh sources indicate. In fact there are more scholars who argue for influences from Greek mythology (Dionysus, etc.) or Egyptian (Horus) items than from Buddhism. But even those are far from solid by any measure. Yet, if that confused you, others may have questions too, and it may need a few sentences in that section with sources - I will try to put it together later today. History2007 (talk) 16:20, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
“Although surface level non-scholarly analogies have been drawn between the two traditions, Buddhism and Christianity have inherent and fundamental differences at the deepest levels” This is your last warning, your lies and dubious assertions are seriously damaging the way I make my living and I reserve the right to hold all such editors personally libel. My request is that you hide your prejudices better or just don’t have an article at all. Furthermore, if I get one of your sanctified scholars to admit that “scholarly analogies have been drawn between the two traditions” I am warning the editor again, I, [redacted] of [redacted]68.32.41.19 (talk) 03:06, 12 February 2013 (UTC), will locate such individuals and attempt to ask them about such gross omissions in person. If camping is permitted outside of your dwelling, I, and every vagrant I can find to join my cause, will plan to set up camp!
YOUR statement, which contradicts the very reason for a page, that “Buddhism and Christianity have inherent and fundamental differences at the deepest levels” requires at the very least the approval of several scholars, and it requires the editor to be completely and utterly ignorant of the many authors, scholars, common folk that have maintained otherwise. Also, when we speak of Christianity and Buddhism, we speak of it in a non-codified sense, to be mo fo sure, there never was any such one Christian or Buddhist church for your marvelously deceitful line to make sense.
12 February 2013 68.32.41.19

Christian Bias[edit]

No offense but in my opinion this article seems to have a real issue with bias, it reads like a Christian preacher trying to push how unrelated the religions are and why Buddhism is "heretical" from a Christian perspective. I wouldn't know where to begin with cleaning it up with a NPOV, the entire article is slanted in this way. 86.184.166.26 (talk) 16:46, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree. I came here wanting genuine, historically respected information on the relatedness of Buddhism and Christianity (ideas, historical background, scholarship etc). This article is disturbingly biased. To editors: Can we put up a notification informing readers of the bias, and advising that the article requires clean up? I don't know enough about Wikipedia to do this. Slagar123 (talk) 00:36, 23 May 2014 (UTC)