Talk:Burgh
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[edit] Parliamentary burghs
I read:
A burgh ... was an autonomous unit of local government in Scotland, with rights to representation in the Parliament of Scotland...
I wonder: Is this true of all burghs? And were all burghs counted as parliamentary burghs for representation in the Parliament of Great Britain and the Parliament of the United Kingdom? (I know that those which were counted, except for Edinburgh, were grouped in districts of burghs in 1708.) Laurel Bush 11:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC).
[edit] Pronounciation of 'burgh'
Anyone growing up in Scotland will realize the error of this statement, specific to the pronunciation of burgh:
"Pronunciation is the same as for the English word borough, which is a near cognate of the Scots word".
Clearly, this is incorrect. Pronunciation would be more analogous to burra. --Fmckane 20:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
And 'borough' is not pronounced 'burra'? Laurel Bush 09:24, 3 July 2006 (UTC).
I would say it is prounounced more like 'Bruh' or 'Brah'. Just as Bamburgh is not 'Bamburra' but 'Bambruh' or 'Bambrah'. Could be a regional thing though.
[edit] ETYMOLOGY
The german verb bergen means to rescue according to "Langenscheidts Großes Schulwörterbuch". According to Cassells "German Dictionary" it means recover. According to both it means to salvage as well.Cakeandicecream 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
In Scots, "burgh" (pron. "burra") also refers to a mussel bed. Hence the name Musselburgh refers to a musselbed rather than a town. There is an old saying something like "Musselburgh was a burgh lang before Edinburgh was a burgh, and Musselburgh will be a burgh lang after Edinburgh. [citation?]
[edit] Expand
This article actually says very little about what a burgh is and what advantages burgh status conferred on a settlement. This page should be a coherent overview of burghs in general, so that the articles on different types of burghs can meaningfully refer back to it. ::Supergolden:: 10:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I'd certainly agree. There should be a fair bit more about what status a burgh had politically and in terms of rights. There should also be more about the whole issue of granting trading rights throughout the kingdom, an essential aspect of a burgh. Many people have little understanding of he highly controlled status of Trade in Scotland historically, and the difficulty coordinating road work and trade. Soemthing could be written about tolbooths aso within the burgh, and the issue of traders vs merchants and burgesses vs other people in the burgh, could be given some attention. Annana 07:54, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Suggestions
1. To improve this article, I propose the following:
- Delete the list of "Burgh as a placename element", this is just an open-ended list. Places actiually called "Burgh", can be moved to a Burgh (disambiguation) page.
- Merge in Burgh of barony and Burgh of regality - these don't need to be separate as they are not that long, and this would immediately beef up the article. I'd keep Royal burgh separate though.
- Further to my comments at Talk:List of burghs in Scotland, if the lists of Large burghs and Small burghs are merged into that list, the text from those articles can be added here - there's currently no mention of large burghs here.
Any comments? Jonathan Oldenbuck 15:35, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
2. US Spelling: Smith & Swetnam in Guidebook to Historic W. Pennsylvania, 1991, U Pittsburgh Press, say the US Bd of Geographic names removed final h from all towns ending in burgh, Dec 24, 1891, and restored it to Pittsburgh July 19, 1911. If true, this is worth noting to explain the spelling difference. Most US towns do omit the h, with exceptions of Pittsburgh, Newburgh, Edinburgh, Plattsburgh. Numbersinstitute (talk) 16:20, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
[edit] Pronunciation
This statement is not very informative and very likely contradictory: Pronunciation is the same as the English word borough, which is a near cognate of the Scots word. The identical English word Burgh (in place names such as Bamburgh, Carrawburgh and Dunstanburgh) sounds exactly like the Scots Burgh, with the emphasis on the 'r'.
Some points:
- burgh is not a near cognate of borough (what does that even mean?), it is a cognate! They both derive from Anglo-Saxon burh.
- With respect to pronunciation, if Scottish burgh == English borough and Scottish burgh == English Burgh, then English borough == English Burgh, which does not accord with my experience.
- Instead of saying the pronunciation "sounds like" some other unclear pronunciation, we could actually describe it, either using IPA or something more generally comprehensible. I'm a Canadian and not acutely aware of British regional speech; my pronunciation of English "borough" alternates between "burrow" and "burra". Scottish "burgh", as in Edinburgh, is AFAIK always pronounced "burra".
