Talk:C. Rajagopalachari

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This article has an assessment summary page.
Former good article nominee C. Rajagopalachari was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

some sources for later life[edit]

-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 03:52, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Comments[edit]

Chance: Yeah! But just as Mahatma is not POV for Gandhi...so is 'chose to become" for Rajaji. - Kaysov

Kaysov, I think there is a subtle difference. Mahatma is not POV because of its usage. But, the phrase "chose to become" in a democracy is slightly demeaning, not only on the people, but on Rajaji himself. No offense meant. chance 08:13, Dec 5, 2003 (UTC)
Chance, you are more than right. I anyway had no plans to put that back. Kaysov 03:43, Dec 8, 2003 (UTC)

Move from Rajaji to C. Rajagopalachari?[edit]

Would it be possible to move this article to C. Rajagopalachari or Chakravarti Rajagopalachari? A redirect will remain at Rajaji. My concern is with using an honorific or nickname to refer to politicians – must we use "Netaji" instead of "Subhas Chandra Bose", "Mahatma" instead of "Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi", and "Panditji" instead of "Jawaharlal Nehru"? I'll double-check, but I think this is contrary to the Wikipedia naming policy. QuartierLatin1968 15:01, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I would concur, based on my limited knowledge. john k 15:20, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It would be nice if the honorific titles are appended to the full name like Subhas Chandra Bose (Netaji) or Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (Mahatma Gandhi) as this is the way they are addressed in India with their respective honorific titles, And FYI netaji and mahatma are not nicknames they are honorable titles vested on them.

Ganesh


  • Last paragraph of the article requires re-wording and a little modification, as Mahatma Gandhi has predeceased Rajaji.--Bhadani 16:04, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Anyone have more information?[edit]

This has been updated .I fully agree with you one has to give true with his positive and negative points his 4 years as CM of Madras State was amongst the worst when he introduced Hindi in 1937 and later Kula Kalvi Thittam (Hereditary Education Policy which was opposed and later removed by kamaraj and became a non elected member and chief minister through a constitutional impropriety which was not liked by Nehru.good job soman keep it up.


Please avoid personal attacks

To the Gentleman or Lady 80.195.10.170. In the Pre computer era which is just about 20 years in India and in most countries in the world.All Governments orders/documents are not available on the internet dating back before that era have not been updated online worldwide.This perhaps includes Kula Kalvi Thittam or the legislation of the Madras Government in 1950's .This includes almost all legislation.Further no encyclopedia posts articles only with Government policy documents which if made mandotary for all pages it will decades to collect and cost millions of dollars to get all documents from over 200 countries while it is possible to get government links for recent events in the internet era it may not possible for all events in the pre Computer era.As per Wikipedia policy citations are enough not Governement documents as they are difficult to get particularly old ones.Please do not remove contents as historical facts cannot be hidden by removing them.You c.an make edits which are positive with citations not negative ie removing content..Tametiger talk


Can any one add more on Rajaji stint as Chief Minister of Madras state?. His relationship with Kamaraj, EVR, AnnaDurai?. His infamous plan to have school and work?

Its interesting that whilst the editors of this article goes to length of describing CRs intellect and personal brilliance, it does hardly mention a word on the disputes inside the Congress, how CR was opposed by most Tamil congress leaders, etc. --Soman 07:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually. Rajaji is my great grand uncle. My grand father, who is his nephew, will help me a lot in providing information about this great leader. User:thelivinglegend —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 12:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Revert[edit]

I've reverted the last edits since;

  • The article already has a zealous touch to it. It does not pay attention to the role played by CR in Indian politics, but rather wishes to focus on his personal greatness.
  • Several statements needs to be backed up (like 'He was respected not only by Indians but by every one'). Claiming that x individuals 'revered him greatly' is at this point often unfounded. If anyone can find proof of in autobiographies that Kennedy or Khrustchev admired CR, then that should be added first as a reference.
  • Why leave out the INDC? Is it not relevant to mention that CR leave a different party before it was merged into the Swatantra Party.
  • The speculation fo CR being proposed as president needs backing up.
  • As to the Swatantra Party, wasn't that rather a unification of anti-Congress elements (like the GP in Odisha, etc.)?

--Soman 11:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

wasnt he the one to start caste-politics[edit]

wasnt he an untouchable who started the caste politics in india. (based on anti brahaminical movements).nids 07:52, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course not! Rajaji was a Brahmin, not a Dalit.

Rajaji is no way related to Anti-Brahmin movements. One may probably call him a target, perhaps. He did do quite a bit for Dalit upliftment, like temple-entry, etc., but he is not related to the Anti-Brahmin movement-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 16:55, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Rajaji and Andhra[edit]

Rajaji remained aloff from the Andhra issue.Potti Sriramulu was allowed to fast and die in Mylapore in Madras in the centre of the city.There are questions as to why Potti Sriramulu was not arrested or force fed as the case should be even when he fasted for over 50 days. He deputed two of his cabinet colleagues, Sankara Reddy and Dr Nagana Gouda to appear before the Mishra Commission regarding Bellary and it was Nehru who opposed and rejected the demand for not including Madras(chennai)into Andhra.

Revert Nehru and Rajaji[edit]

Mr Bharatveer You have contributed a lot keep it up .Thanks a lot as a Wikipedia user. .Nothing personal mate just keen to know why your removed it?Is it against policy was I wrong ?Please tell me would be glad to know? Please Do not remove content with proper citations. I hope you did it without considering WP policy and is a oversight.Please remove content with citations.Further Madras Presidency was called Madras State after independence and not Tamil Nadu.Hence used Madras State.


Nehru was furious and wrote to Rajaji that that "the one thing we must avoid giving is the impression that we stick to office and we want to keep others out at all costs.the links are below. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050303/asp/opinion/story_4445928.asp http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/2001/06/04/stories/05041306.htm

Notes section[edit]

The last 2 references are to the life of E.V.Ramaswamy naicker. Who put it here? They should be removed. They should be put in the page for EVR.

Of course, they are from Dravidar Kazhagam sites. But they are definitely related to Rajaji as they are about protests against imposition of Hindi and the Kula Kalvi Thittam-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 16:51, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Rajaji's Birth District[edit]

When Rajaji was born, his native place Thorapalli was in Salem district. Then Salem district was bifurcated into Salem and Dharmapuri. So Thorapalli was in Dharmapuri District. Then Dharmapuri district was bifurcated into Dharmapuri and Krishnagiri. So now Thorapalli is in Krishnagiri District.

Familial Relations[edit]

I believe Rajaji's daughter Lakshmi Rajagopalachari married Devdas Gandhi, the Mahatma's son. Can anyone confirm this? -Etoile (talk) 03:03, 20 October 2008 (UTC) Briniyavan 07:09, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, correct. It shall be included in a new section"Family"-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 16:49, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Indian independence movement[edit]

Hi, I have posted comments to the Peer Review of this article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review#C._Rajagopalachari

To help with copyediting to improve this section, the sentences below would benefit from some prose explaining what they are about - without some context it's hard for someone not already familiar with Indian history to understand.

(i) Need citation (and explanation of significance of each person, I've tried to do the latter but someone more knowledgable can do a better job)
Rajaji was a close friend of V. O. Chidambaram Pillai. He was also highly admired by Annie Besant and C. Vijayaraghavachariar.

(ii) Need an explanation of what this is about.
When the Indian National Congress split in 1923, Rajaji was a member of the Civil Disobedience Enquiry Committee.[1] He supported the old guard and opposed the council entry programme of the Swarajists.[1]

(iii) Need an explanation of what this is about.
It was during this time, that E. V. Ramasamy functioned as a Congress member under Rajaji's leadership.

Jomeara421 (talk) 02:30, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Madras Presidency section[edit]

Again, arising from Peer Review, some questions about this section.

(i) Would be useful to add a sentence or two on 'prohibition' explaining reasons for its enactment, etc.
"Rajaji also introduced prohibition ..." etc

(ii) This needs some explanation. Specifically, what is the 'Wardha schem'?
Rajaji's opponents also assigned casteist motives to the implementation of the Gandhi's Wardha scheme[2] in the educational institutions in the Presidency by the Congress Government.

(iii) Does the second sentence refer to the first??? They seem disconnected. What law is being referred to??
In 1940, Congress ministers resigned protesting the declaration of war on Germany without their consent, and the Governor took over the reins of the administration. The unpopular law was eventually repealed by the Governor of Madras on February 21, 1940.

Thanks. John. Jomeara421 (talk)

Second World War - section copyediting queries[edit]

Comments/queries from Peer Review copyediting of this section:

1. In the sentence that begins "Rajaji was arrested…"
"Defence of India Rules" Is there a link or explanation for what this means? There is an article on Defence of India Act 1915 but this was around World War one apparently.

2. This sentence needs clarification. What is it about?
"However, at a later stage, Rajaji differed in opinion over opposition to British war effort."[1]

3. What are the 'certain' differences? Needs clarification.
"He resigned from the party and the assembly following differences over certain resolutions passed by …"

4. "Constitutional tangle" in the following sentence is obscure, and needs clarification.
"In 1944, he proposed a solution to the Indian Constitutional tangle…"

Thanks. John Jomeara421 (talk) 01:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Governor of West Bengal - copyediting queries[edit]

More queries arising from Peer Review copyediting:


1. This sentence needs clarification concerning what the 'criticism' was about.
" "Rajaji was disliked by Bengalis largely for his criticism of Subhash Chandra Bose during the 1938 Tripuri Congress session."

2. Need to clarify reason for 'opposition'
" Rajaji was also strongly opposed to proposals to include areas from Bihar and Odisha in the province of West Bengal."

3. What is the 'important newspaper'???
"To one such proposal by the editor of an important newspaper, …"

4. This sentence seems like a stray – it looks out of place. Is there some other significance to it, or can it be moved somewhere else?
" Rajaji was highly regarded and respected by Chief Minister Prafulla Chandra Ghosh and the state cabinet."

Union Home Ministry - Copyediting queries[edit]

Query resulting from Peer Review copyediting.

1. This sentence needs a citation.
"He had also expressed concern over the demands made about establishing new states on a linguistic basis, saying that it would generate differences amongst the people."

Madras State section - copyediting questions[edit]

Queries arising from Peer Review copyediting:


1. This sentence is nearly incomprehensible. I have tried to reorganize it, but the facts are obscure, and assistance from someone who knows more about the events is needed to make sure that the edited version is factually correct.

But Governor Sri Prakasa nominated Rajaji to the Legislative Council without the advice of the council of ministers and the selection of a nominated member as Chief Minister and further majority was obtained by luring opposition Members of the Legislative Assembly[3] to join the party and Nehru was furious and wrote to Rajaji that" the one thing we must avoid giving is the impression that we stick to office and we want to keep others out at all costs"[4][5]

2. A citation is needed to support this sentence.
"Rajaji refused to contest a by-election and remained a non elected member."

3. A citation is needed to support this sentence.
P.C. Alexander, a former Tamil Nadu and Maharashtra governor, has described these events as a serious constitutional impropriety.


4. The topic discussed in this sentence needs clarification.
"Rajaji removed controls on foodgrains, and…"


Thanks. John. Jomeara421 (talk) 03:30, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Swatantra Party section[edit]

Copyediting from Peer Review

NB:Trimmed Section title

1. Needs a supporting citation.
The quote that begins "Encouraging competition…."

2. Needs a citation.
"Beginning in the early 1960s ….."

Jomeara421 (talk) 00:32, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

1967 elections[edit]

Copyediting from Peer Review.

Not a single citation in this section.

Jomeara421 (talk) 01:17, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Contributions to literature and music[edit]

Copyediting from Peer Review


1. The Wikipedia entry for Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan says this organization was founded in 1938 by someone else – verification needed.
"In 1958, he established the Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan."

Jomeara421 (talk) 02:05, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Criticism Section[edit]

Copyediting from the Peer Review process:

NB: Both the "Legacy" and "Criticism" section could be greatly improved with some stronger analysis.

1. This statement (and others in this section) needs support:
"Despite the fact that Rajaji was considered to be one of the most able statesmen in the national arena, his provincial and then, state administrations are believed to have fared badly."

2. This concept needs clarification and citation support:
"C. R. Formula"

3. Almost every sentence in this section needs citations to support the claims that are being made.

4. The concept of "Dravidian movement" is introduced here, without being discussed previously in the article – surely it should be discussed somewhere else, not in a concluding section.

Overall this section needs attention from an unbiased editor knowledgeable about the subject.

Jomeara421 (talk) 02:43, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Photo[edit]

The photo of him is very poor. Perhaps a better photo can be obtained? --DThomsen8 (talk) 23:43, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Image of Rajaji???[edit]

[[Image:CR Rajaji.jpg|This image that w Saivites. Besides, Rajaji never sports any religious symbols or caste marks in any of his photographs. Also, Rajaji used coloured glasses for his spectacles unlike the person in the photograph who appears to use plain ones. The owners of iloveindia.com might have confused some else's photo for Rajaji. -The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 02:17, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

I guess the person in the photograph must be Kalki Sadasivam in his old age though I'm not sure.-The EnforcerOffice of the secret service 02:38, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

ashram in Salem[edit]

cheranmadevi school incidence and ashram in Salem may be included. --CarTick 18:52, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Council entry??[edit]

The section "Indian Independence Movement" makes reference to a debate about "council entry". This term means nothing to a lay reader from outside India and requires explanation in the article. Can anyone help? hamiltonstone (talk) 23:08, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

I have rewritten it to explain what "council entry" meant. I am not sure if it makes sense to someone not familiar with the intra-party Congress politics. Can you check and see if this is ok. If it is still not clear, i will add a more descriptive footnote.--Sodabottle (talk) 04:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps a slightly cumbersome wording, but it is precise, and now i clearly understand what it was about. That is better. Much appreciated. hamiltonstone (talk) 04:42, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:C. Rajagopalachari/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk) 20:17, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Toolbox

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: None found

Linkrot: Fixed one dead link, tagged one other, added access dates using WikiBlame.[2] Jezhotwells (talk) 20:43, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria[edit]

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
    Frankly the prose is poor. Whilst mostly grammatically correct, it reads as a series of disconnected sentences mostly starting "He..." or "Rajagopalachari...". Consider a thorough copy-edit by a third party to make the prose flow better, with more structure. Recommend reading Wikipedia:Writing better articles
    Consistency, we had instances of both "Rajaji" and "Rajagopalachari" being used to refer to the subject. The longer form is preferable, but as mentioned above you need to consider the overal prose flow - at the moemnt it is jerky and chopy throughout. Try reading it out loud. Whilst on the subject of consistency, why is the article named C. Rajagopalachari rather than Chakravarti Rajagopalachari?
    Rajagopalachari issued the Temple Entry Authorization and Indemnity Act 1939@@ Issued? Same fault a line or two further down.
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    Consistency, sometimes the book title is used in the citation, sometimes the author. Better to stick to the author (and date if the more than one of the authors' works are cited).
    There are two entries for Ralhan, O. P. (2002). Encyclopaedia of Political Parties. Anmol Publications PVT. LTD. ISBN 8174888659, ISBN 9788174888655. withe same ISBN. Why are two ISBNS (long and short) quoted on most of the books?
    Consistency - Author names, Family name first, given name second.
    References that I can access confirm stated facts.
    ONe dead link found and tagged.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    Many phrase need better explanation. the eradr may no know much about Indian culture. Sentences such as:
    He pioneered temperance and temple entry movements in India and advocated Dalit upliftment. may require further explanation. What is a a "temple entry movement", what is "Dalit upliftment". Wikilinks alone do not explain. The background needs to be obvious in the article itself.
    His first major breakthrough as a leader was the 1922 Gaya session of the Indian National Congress What is the "the 1922 Gaya session"?
    What was "Gandhi's Wardha scheme"?
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
    As far as I can ascertain
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    The two faded yellow newspaper clippings could be sharpennd up and made more vsible in a graphic editing program -m at the moment they have very little discrenible content.
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    I am going to fail this now as there is rather a lot of work to be done. Suggest you take this to peer review before renominating at GAN. Please remember that GAn is not a substitute for peer review. Articles brought here should be ready and checked against the criteria. Jezhotwells (talk) 14:59, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

File:Gandhi Rajagopalachari.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

Image-x-generic.svg An image used in this article, File:Gandhi Rajagopalachari.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests January 2012
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  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference pillarsp88 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ "Wardha Scheme". Time Inc. September 5,1938. Retrieved 2008-10-29.  Check date values in: |date= (help)
  3. ^ http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1539375.cms
  4. ^ "The Telegraph - Calcutta : Opinion". Telegraphindia.com. 2005-03-03. Retrieved 2009-02-28. 
  5. ^ "Of Governors and CMs". The Hindu. 2001-06-04. Retrieved 2009-02-28.