Talk:Calumet (pipe)

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Expansion[edit]

I think this article needs more information about the cultural aspects of the peace pipe. The information on materials and craftsmanship is excellent, but it's not quite what I was hoping to learn about when I visited this page. ptkfgs 07:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Though I would like to contribute, unfortunately there are restrictions and I'm afraid to face any law suits from Prentice Hall Press if I was to quote anything from Sun Bear's book "The Path of Power" (1983, Prentice Hall Press, New York, ISBN 0-13-653403-1)where he gives an excellent explanation of the spiritual meaning of the peace pipe in his chapter called "Ceremonies and Medicine Objects" as it's mentioned that all rights are reserved on the first page.


I'd like to point out that the person known as "Sun Bear" is not a reputable source, and quoting from that book would be useless anyway.

The [citation needed] points neglect the fact that some of this knowledge is oral in nature, and an elder with known good reputation and knowledge would be able to confirm / deny those, and be considered "expert knowledge" (the cultural differences here are wide, but not inescapable ;) ). According to what I was taught, however, those statements are true.

Um, you want all the cultural aspects here? :). Which culture? We're not exactly a homogeneous mass here. We do share some similarities, but things can differ from nation to nation, and from tradition to tradition. Be careful with this "pan-Indianism" thing. SimonRaven (talk) 21:19, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at the verifiability policy. Addhoc (talk) 22:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Marijuana vs Tobacco[edit]

I just changed the article to say that the most common herb smoked was tobacco. Marijuana was only introduced to North America fairly recently. I can provide plenty of citations if necessary. Please don't change it back to marijuana as marijuana is a huge misconception.

Marijuana does make some sense, because it has a calming effect. but the pipe was smoked before war just as much as after it 24.254.141.144 18:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

here are some online refferences

24.254.141.144 18:55, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Eagle Feathers[edit]

According to the Wikipedia article on the subject, the Ruppell's Vulture is the highest flying bird, not the eagle, having been sited at 37,000 ft (albeit briefly as it smacked into the airplane that also happened to be flying at that particular height. I don't know in what way that section should be reworded so I started the discussion page topic to discuss. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.228.171.140 (talk) 02:38, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, biological facts and traditional religious legends or tales can differ sometimes. In religion, it's usually all about symbolism. If we measure religious things along scientific evidence it'll all fall apart, I'm afraid. Then we'll get to unanswerable questions like: Did Adam & Eve have navels? How did Eve ever come out of his rib? How did mankind survive if Adam & Eve had no daughters and Caine slayed his only brother? How did the Egyptian plagues come about? Etc. etc. In religion we're not supposed to take everything literally. Furthermore, I don't know about the Ruppell's Vulture and whether this bird would be indigenous to America, so that Native Americans could have spotted this high flyiong bird? Besides, would you expect the Great Spirit to sit on a cloud there at 37,000 feet? Please don't appraoch spirituality too scientifically? Theo, Amsterdam —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.162.133.112 (talk) 18:39, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I've just been checking now and found out that the Ruppell's Vulture is an African bird, so that only underlines my argument that we really should be seperating religious symbolism from biology. Why bring it up in the first place? Native Americans didn't see this vulture and if they'd do now it's by visiting a zoo where the bird is even unable to reach these high altitudes (how large would the cage have to be?). Conclusion: eagle feathers are only rightly used in religious ceremonies. Theo, Amsterdam —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.162.133.112 (talk) 07:45, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Both of you are right, it just depends how you look at it. However, for the context of this article, the 'eagle' is fine. Even if this vulture lived on the great plains of America I'm sure the symbolism of the eagle would take priority over the biological facts. I do find it strange that you went to all the trouble to find this out, yet did'nt decide an African bird would be of little relevance to a native American tradition. Elcaballooscuro (talk) 19:51, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Is anyone willing to work on this page?[edit]

I found a decent reference, and probably can find more. Email me (from my user page) Ling.Nut (talk) 03:37, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Rename and Restructure[edit]

"Peace Pipe" is an inappropriate name for an article that attempts to cover ceremonial pipes in general, and is a bit offensive in this usage. Need to look over related articles and do some serious restructuring and sourcing here. - Kathryn NicDhàna 19:44, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Ceremonial Uses[edit]

I changed the word "drugs" to "materials" as I feel it is more fitting in a ceremonial setting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.175.233.162 (talk) 05:16, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Name[edit]

So we know 'calumet' is a norman word and 'peace pipe' is an overgeneralization.. shouldn't we hear the names the actual natives used? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.130.241 (talk) 22:30, 24 October 2013 (UTC)