Talk:Cancer

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Former good article Cancer was one of the Natural sciences good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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To Maintaining Low Blood Sugar as a New Cancer Treatment[edit]

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Evilstriver (talkcontribs) 08:21, 23 September 2009‎

Other animals[edit]

I think this section, focusing on transmissible cancers in animals, looks a bit strange as it stands. An innocent reader might wonder whether cancer occurs elsewhere (See also?). Actually, Wikipedia content on animal diseases as a whole is a bit of a mystery to me. 109.157.86.177 (talk) 15:52, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately, vet med articles are a bit of a mystery to just about everyone. We've had a couple of good editors work on them in the past, but they tend to be focused on particular animals (e.g., horses or cats, but not animals in general), and I'm not aware of anyone working in that area these days. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:54, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
Added a bit. Category:Veterinary_oncology seems, er, at least adequate. Wiki CRUK John (talk) 13:08, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
This recent study where a small trial on naturally occurring cancers in dogs preceded a successful treatment (with bacteria) of a single human patient might be worth giving an example of a research route. Wiki CRUK John (talk) 13:06, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Cancer and alternative medicine/CAM[edit]

Here are a couple new articles from Medscape dealing with AM/CAM:

  • Citation template: <ref name=Stern>{{Citation |last=Stern |first=Victoria |date=02 September 2014 |title=Mythbusters: Complementary and Alternative Treatments in Cancer |publisher=''[[Medscape]]'' |url=http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/830552_print |accessdate=07 September 2014 }}</ref>
  • Citation template: <ref name=Miller>{{Citation |last=Miller |first=Gabriel |date=02 September 2014 |title=Asking the Experts: Complementary and Alternative Medicine and Cancer |publisher=''[[Medscape]]'' |url=http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/830553_print |accessdate=07 September 2014 }}</ref>

Registration is easy and free. Medscape is a good RS, sometimes as a MEDRS, and other times for expert opinions. -- Brangifer (talk) 17:10, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2014[edit]

In the subsection 'Epidemiology' the figure legend of the map Cancer#mediaviewer/File:Malignant_neoplasms_world_map_-_Death_-_WHO2004.svg says 'Death rate' but from the source [1] it is actually the age-standardized death rate. These are two very different numbers in the WHO source and it may lead to confusion. I suggest to change the legend to 'Death rate (age-adjusted)' or something similar. Thank you! Sebeh1 (talk) 11:55, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Done Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 16:58, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Great graphic for incidence and mortality of different types of cancer[edit]

Here's a great chart that clearly displays the different types of cancer (lung, colorectal, breast, etc., according to number of deaths), and also gives the new cases. It does what a good chart should do -- summarizes a lot of useful information in one chart. It basically uses the principles of Edward Tufte. This is not an article on cancer, but an article on graphic design, which uses cancer mortality and incidence as an example of good design. I've seen charts like this before, but this one is open access from PLoS. I would upload it myself, but I never got around to registering for Wikimedia.

doi:10.1371/journal.pcbi.1003833 http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1003833#pcbi.1003833-Fung1

Here's the graphic: http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1003833.g001&representation=PNG_M

--Nbauman (talk) 13:00, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Nice but US-only. I hope to get global ones from CRUK before long. Obviously, this is an area where the US is not a good proxy for the world, as developed & undeveloped world patterns vary greatly for many cancers. Wiki CRUK John (talk) 16:00, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't want to be pedantic about the US/world perspective. There are 2 reasons for using US statistics:
I think the US statistics, based on the SEER database, are the most accurate statistics in the world. I read Lancet, BMJ and other UK journals, and even they use SEER statistics when they need figures for all cancers. I would expect that if CRUK had statistics, they would put them on their web site. The Europeans have statistics for individual cancers, but the SEER database collects statistics for all cancers by consistent methods with consistent definitions. I once looked into the prostate cancer statistics in detail. How do you decide when a patient has died from prostate cancer, and not one of the other comorbid conditions of aging? You can't. (Actually, SEER only collects data from the states that are in a sampling region, and they're extrapolated to the US as a whole, so they're not even US-wide statistics.) There might be Scandinavian databases that are also as accurate, but I haven't seen them.
You would lose important information if you merged data from the developed with the undeveloped world. Cervical cancer, for example has a completely different pattern in the two. In fact, I saw a Lancet international comparison, and they said that black Americans should be compared separately from white Americans, because the patters were so different.
Furthermore, I don't think there are any accurate statistics for the undeveloped world. In the Ebola epidemic now, doctors were saying that they probably only record a quarter of the cases, and that had a wide margin of error, because people often bury family members without reporting it to anybody. Any cancer statistics you could get from the undeveloped world would have wide margins of errors, and if you merge the developed and undeveloped world, you'd get combined statistics that had the same wide margin of error of the undeveloped world.
If you can find comparative statistics that are as good as the US statistics, and a plot that is as clear and informative as this one, I'd like to see it. But I don't think they exist. --Nbauman (talk) 20:51, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Don't worry, CRUK have a sub-site on statistics, UK and global, produced by a fair-sized team of specialists - see here. Enjoy! It is precisely because the "developed & undeveloped world patterns vary greatly for many cancers" (not that you would know it from the article in its present state) that US-only statistics are inadequate. Johnbod (talk) 23:47, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Incorrect sentence in 1st paragraph[edit]

I don't agree with first sentence of this lemma : Cancer, also known as a malignant tumor, is a group of diseases involving abnormal cell growth with the potential to invade or spread to other parts of the body. come back later with arguments and proposal for correction --DerekvG (talk) 10:39, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Ref one says[1]
"Cancer is a generic term for a large group of diseases that can affect any part of the body. Other terms used are malignant tumours and neoplasms. One defining feature of cancer is the rapid creation of abnormal cells that grow beyond their usual boundaries, and which can then invade adjoining parts of the body and spread to other organs."
Ref two says:[2]
"Cancer is a term used for diseases in which abnormal cells divide without control and are able to invade other tissues. Cancer cells can spread to other parts of the body through the blood and lymph systems. Cancer is not just one disease but many diseases."
These support that cancer is also known as malignant tumor, that cancer is a group of diseases, that abnormal cell growth is involved, that their is a potential to spread or invade other body parts. Not sure what issue you see? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 10:56, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
One might query "a malignant tumor" at the start as encompassing all cancers, no? (oh, this is the ref, not the text: Well cancer does not = neoplasm, as the sentence rather implies/says.) Haven't we had a section on this in the last 6 months? Can't find it though. Please come back with proposal - this is absolutely the right way tio do it. Wiki CRUK John (talk) 11:18, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Cancer does not equal neoplasm. Cancer does equal malignant neoplasm but does not equal benign neoplasm. These terms are sometimes not used correctly. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 11:24, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Oh! the discussion started without me, nice, wait for me chaps let me catch up  ;-)
I do agree with Doc James and with the two definitions that ref1 and ref2 provide, I think thos references actually support my statement that I don agree with the first sentence of this lemma. At least not as its worded now it implies that cancer is limited to malignant tumour and it isn't beacuse it aslo includes such cancers as lymphoma, and leukemia which to my non-medical knowledge don't have solid tumours or neoplasms, they are however "abnormnal cells with uncontrolled growth".
I woudl like to propose the following change to that sentence :
" Cancer is a generic term covering a large variety of diseases that share the following common caracterics :
- a) abnormally formed cells
- b) uncontrolled cell growth (division)
- c) with the potential to invade adjoining tissue or spread to other organs of the body.
Cancer is not limited to diseases that involve the development of malignant tumour(s), non-tumour forming diseases exist.
Not all neoplasm (solid tumour formation) is cancerous, benign tumours are excluded from the cancer group of diseases."
Thank you Wiki CRUK John for your remark that this is the way to make such fundamental changes to the wiki encyclopedia--DerekvG (talk) 11:03, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
One can have liquid neoplasms (also known as liquid tumors) (ie leukemia). And WHO uses the term neoplasm and tumor interchangeably. They do not restrict either of these words to just "solid mass". Have added malignant neoplasm as one of the possible terms.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 11:13, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
By the way what is a "lemma" Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 11:13, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
A maths-derived term for a page, much used by Dutch & German speakers. Since I think we all agree that the WHO's "Other terms used are malignant tumours and neoplasms" isn't really precisely correct, and the text doesn't say that, we should look for a better ref. If we just remove "also known as a malignant tumor," aren't we all happy? Then we need something with a more qualified version of that bit, distinguishing benign/malignant & solid/not. Replacing "Not all tumors are cancerous; benign tumors do not spread to other parts of the body", how about:

"All cancers are classed as neoplasms, and most form solid tumors. Cancer is the group of neoplasms which are malignant, meaning that they spread to other parts of the body. Other neoplasms are called benign because they do not spread in this way, and so are not cancers." Wiki CRUK John (talk) 12:01, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Indeed Wiki CRUK John, so I just outed myself as a dutch speaker, we do use the term "lemma" for a wiki subject page --DerekvG (talk) 15:54, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Yes thanks John. The terms malignant tumours and malignant neoplasms are used and are correct because tumours and neoplasms represent both solid and liquid cancers. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 12:08, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Allow me to respond to that as a patient advocate in the matter of cancer. In other discussions on Wp:MED i've defended the position that on initial pages we should make sure that anybody can read and understand clearly what is being said, that further down we get more technical and readers are supposed to "dig" further (to clarify what information they don't understand) is fairly understood and acceptable as policy. I do understand and acknowedledge the nomenclature of the WHO and different cancer research institutions and organisations such as EORTC, ACA or NCI. I think for the wikipedia reader, unfamiliar with medical terminology, we should clarify that solid tumours and liquid cancers exist and what their common caracteristics are even if we say that from that point onward the terms cancer, malginant tumour or malignant neoplasm, are considered interchangeable and covering all types of cancer (that is why I said i didn't agree with the sentence). IMHO Users of wikipedia without a medical background are most likely to drop into the subject at pages like cancer, tumor or any page with the name of a disease picked up during a converstaion with their physician, and that is why we need to provide relevant, accurate and unambiguous information or informatiopn presented in such a manner that the casual reader both understands the different aspects and nuances of the subject and that we dissipate confusion by providing the different termss that might be interchangebaly used to refer to the same thing especially if they seem to refer to a subset.--DerekvG (talk) 15:54, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Unfortunately the whole issue(s) of solid and liquid tumors, blood cancers, fixed and mobile tumors, which I agree needs explaining, even if not all are significant medical distinctions it seems, is not clearly handled at tumor/neoplasm, liquid tumor/Tumors of the hematopoietic and lymphoid tissues, or anywhere else that I can see. We need a patch that should go in all of these in some form. Wiki CRUK John (talk) 14:01, 15 October 2014 (UTC)