Talk:Cannabis smoking
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This page was nominated for deletion on 11 February 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
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[edit] Citation 12 down
Citation 12, used 4 times in the article redirects to a 404 page. It's an important one: Study Finds No Link Between Marijuana Use and Lung Cancer
http://www.thoracic.org/sections/publications/press-releases/conference/articles/study-finds-no-link-between-marijuana-use-and-lung-cancer.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.9.87.245 (talk) 23:46, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- As of December 2011, that reference is still 404-ing. And I agree, it's definitely an important one. Galatix27 03:11, 7 December 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Galatix27 (talk • contribs)
[edit] Please reread Wikipedia:NOTHOWTO
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The above cited individual and one other editor have made it a point to ban entirely from WP cannabis-related articles the following technical references:
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-1/4%22-diam.-Screen-for-a-Single-Toke-Utensil http://www.wikihow.com/Sift-Herbs-for-Smoking-Use Not only does WP not ban references to wikiHow.com, the above cited rule explicitly encourages consulting it! If Wikipedia articles are not to read like a how-to guide, then the correct recourse is to add links helping readers seeking such information to find their way to it. Tokerdesigner (talk) 00:51, 16 March 2010 (UTC) Lung Cancer vs. Paraneoplastic SyndromesSuggesting cannabis is cancer safe because of lower lung cancer incidences compared to chemically altered commercial tobacco is misleading. Use of organic tobaccos also have a much lower lung cancer incidence rate, such as are found in better quality Cuban cigars. What is not addressed along with the suggestion that cannabis is cancer safe are higher paraneoplastic syndrome incidences, and higher incidence of the rarer cancers. 74.13.56.62 (talk) 18:41, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Tokerdesigner (talk) 00:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC) Re: SPS (wikiHow.com: How to Make Smoke Pipes From Everyday Objects)1. "Self-published media, such as... open wikis... are largely not acceptable as sources." Note the hedging adverb "largely"! References to a source such as wikiHow stand or fall, i.e. can or can not be considered "reliable", not on the basis of whether they are self-published but rather on the basis of the truthfulness and accuracy of information provided (on which you have not commented at all). 2. WP:NOTHOWTO specifically states: "If you are interested in a "how-to" type of manual, you may want to look at wikiHow, How to Wiki or our sister project, Wikibooks." This must be seen as an endorsement of the practice of citing a wikiHow article as a source, in that such a citation actually makes it possible to omit how-to directions from WP itself. 3. To avoid denial of service to Wikipedia clients, especially young persons seeking trustworthy information about controversial subjects such as cannabis, a certain opportunism is expressly permitted (WP:Ignore All Rules). Failure to include a reference to descriptions of how to make harm reduction equipment (in this case for those contemplating smoking) may put such vulnerable clients at the mercy of "headshops" which notoriously practice rip-off pricing and push heavily glamorized hot burning overdose equipment (wide bowl-diameter pipes etc.). This question of dosage size in my opinion rivals that of avoiding mixtures with tobacco in importance as a public health issue.Tokerdesigner (talk) 21:47, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
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[edit] Edits by Tokerdesigner
Like many other editors, I continue to revert the flippant and original research edits by Tokerdesigner. Adding "hot burning" everywhere possible, adding visual estimates, how-to, all unsourced and based on his singular experiences. Now he threatens retaliation of my Coffin Joe articles. --Mjpresson (talk) 17:20, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
[edit] Image change
I replaced the preposterous "Midwack" leader image with the more common image of a man smoking a joint, article is titled Cannabis smoking. Editor Tokerdesigner is obsessed with Midwacks and puts the image everywhere possible. --Mjpresson (talk) 19:56, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
[edit] "Image change"-- in whose interest?
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The above-signed editor is, among other recent exploits, prosecuting this editor on the WP:Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents page, seeking a one-week ban from editing, based on accusations of Tokerdesigner "threatening" Mjpresson which remain unproven. The above-referenced insertion of "common image of a man smoking a joint" at the top of the article could be an indication of User:Mjpresson's actual intentions: if User:Tokerdesigner is banned, perhaps there would be a week-long "run" on cannabis-related articles seeking to remove/suppress any information (especially pictures) of alternative methods of administration of cannabis which could threaten the hegemony of the cigarette industry (which depends on unhealthy overdose delivery systems for its profit margin, and reaches among cannabis users to recruit further victims for nicotine addiction). More WP:SPAM would be added instead, to promote the idea that there are no alternatives available, therefore you better just roll a "joint" instead. (Any picture of a joint is a picture of a cigarette; any picture of a person smoking a cigarette, especially perched at the top of an article like this with 1000 hits a day, is cigarette advertising.)
Other pro-overdose and pro-tobacco-addiction strategies of Mjpresson include removing from illustrations any mention of estimated serving size, such as "500 mg" on a picture of a joint and "25 mg" on an adjoining picture of a dosage reduction utensil which could lead users seeking information about "Cannabis smoking" options to make a more rational choice of procedure, and deleting from the Hashish article the Australian Department of Health warning against mixing cannabis with tobacco "which can lead to unintended nicotine addiction" (see 18 consecutive Mjpresson edits there). User:Mjpresson is a capable writer and could contribute much valuable work to Wikipedia. However he/she appears to be acting as an agent to promote a pro-cigarette-industry point of view on WP, therefore may have a conflict of interest which invalidates any claim to edit cannabis-related articles. (Because Mjpresson has suggested curtailing or even erasing some of Tokerdesigner's defense argument at WP:ANI on grounds that it is too long (to hell with democracy?) I intend to discuss that case, and the present edits, further at WP:WikiProject Cannabis, referenced at the top of this page, providing links thereto at WP:ANI.) In the interest of offering positive suggestions what to do about the articleCannabis smoking: 1. It should include explanations which help readers understand the difference between "smoking" and "vaporizing"-- including the fact the "smoke" (combustion effluent) contains nothing worth inhaling, rather the desirable ingredients (such as cannabinoids) are harvested from a narrow zone adjacent to the part of the herb which is burning, and heated by it. The fast, high temperature burning of a cigarette or joint thus permits some vapors to be obtained, but a high percentage of cannabinoid is combusted before it has time to vaporize. With a small, narrow utensil, one can heat the material for many seconds before letting it catch on fire, obtaining more cannabinoid and avoiding carbon monoxide, combustion toxins etc. which for decades have been producing avoidable "drug effects" ignorantly blamed on cannabis and supporting demands for prohibition (which works to the advantage of the tobacco industry). 2. Instead of separating tobacco and cannabis administration utensils into different articles, it may be more informative to address the difference between inhalant and non-inhalant smoking. Sources indicate that the majority of "smokers" worldwide are inhalant users-- including almost all cannabis users and almost all tobacco cigarette users; these can benefit by using utensils which maximize the inhalation of vapors and minimize the inhalation of combustion toxins ("smoke"). Outside the desirable but more expensive vaporizer, such utensils include ""one-hitters", the antique calumet, the kiseru, yes, Mj, the midwakh, the sebsi and certain long-stemmed Jamaican chillums. Non-inhalant users, such as User:Frotz who writes about large, non-inhalant pipes at tobacco-related articles, pump strong-tasting, harsh tobaccos around the oral and nasal cavities, absorbing nicotine into the brain via the mucous membranes, rather than attempting to inhale the material into the bloodstream as cigarette smokers do. Because, according to the World Health Organization, cigarettes cause 6,000,000 deaths a year worldwide, it would be highly desirable to persuade cigarette users to switch either to non-inhalant tobacco use like Frotz with his calabash or to an inhalant dosage miniaturization utensil which permits vaporization instead of "smoking". A 2008 fund-raising slogan seen daily on pages here read: "Help Wikimedia change the world!" What more important change than to provide information making it possible to replace "smoking" with vaporization utensils-- both for tobacco and for cannabis-- which could eliminate a 6,000,000-per-year death toll? Let us help Wikimedia live up to its slogans and keep the promise made to readers who have contributed money.Tokerdesigner (talk) 00:40, 14 June 2011 (UTC) |
- Note: Tokerdesigner is being appealed to be blocked for these types of edits. Reverted. Tokerdesigner should consider laying off this type of edit while under blockade discussion.Mjpresson (talk) 04:31, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Before adding the last, possibly taunting comment, above, Mjpresson had't seen all revisions and improvements (including bolds) I made to my previous statement. Sorry, Mj. Also, Mj didn't wait for the close of voting to make 20 more deletions from the same articles under discussion.Tokerdesigner (talk) 01:11, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
[edit] Tokerdesigner needs to stop
Tokerdesigner is under a block appeal [1] and should refrain from disrupting the images on the page. He feels that the photo promotes smoking joints. So what. The title of the article is Cannabis smoking and there is a pic of a man smoking a joint which is very contextual.--Mjpresson (talk) 00:37, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
[edit] Vaporizing is not smoking
There were 2 images of vaporizers in this article which is excessive as vaporizing is not smoking, the images should stress smoking images per title of article. Stress on vaporizer images can go on the vaporizer page.Mjpresson (talk) 17:08, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree - vaporising ≠ smoking. It can be dealt with at the parent article of cannabis consumption and Vaporizer (cannabis). That was backed up by the reference used in the pipe section titled "Vaporization as a smokeless cannabis delivery system" - clearly shouldn't be included here. SmartSE (talk) 08:40, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
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prev) 16:05, 22 June 2011 Mjpresson (talk
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- "Vaporizing needs emphasis because it is a less unhealthy alternative to "smoking"" - quite simply, no it doesn't - that is your personal belief, not backed up by any policy. If you can find strong references discussing how it is less unhealthy than smoking a joint, then include this in the health effects section, but not it doesn't merit a section in this article. SmartSE (talk) 08:32, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
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Please discuss the following edit sequence: What is "not contextual" about helping readers seeking information about "Cannabis smoking" find out about low-dosage utensils which can substitute for wasteful, unhealthy "joint smoking"? Note that the same editor who deletes the link to the "One-hitter (smoking)" article has also deleted several pictures (of equipment other than cigarette papers!) from that article, deleted the Australian Department of Health warning against mixing with tobacco (in "joints") from the "Hashish" and "Cannabis smoking" articles, and positioned a "person smoking a joint" (cigarette advert) atop the "Cannabis smoking" article. Why?Tokerdesigner (talk) 23:40, 14 July 2011 (UTC) |
[edit] Should this be called "Smoking of cannabis"?
Or something else? It's a legitimate topic and decently written, but the title strikes me odd. Not quite sure what the MoS would say. Anyone else watching this page? WWB (talk) 06:25, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
[edit] Merger proposal
I believe that One-hitter (smoking) should be merged into this article. I has almost no content and is unreferenced. Mjpresson (talk) 23:56, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
