|This page was nominated for deletion on 11 February 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.|
|WikiProject Cannabis||(Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)|
|WikiProject Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants||(Rated Start-class)|
- 1 Don't know how to cite properly
- 2 Citation 12 down
- 3 Please reread Wikipedia:NOTHOWTO
- 4 Lung Cancer vs. Paraneoplastic Syndromes
- 5 Re: SPS (wikiHow.com: How to Make Smoke Pipes From Everyday Objects)
- 6 Edits by Tokerdesigner
- 7 Image change
- 8 "Image change"-- in whose interest?
- 9 Tokerdesigner needs to stop
- 10 Vaporizing is not smoking
- 11 Should this be called "Smoking of cannabis"?
- 12 Merger proposal
- 13 Deleted materal
- 14 Deleted material
- 15 Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2013
- 16 Non-encyclopaedic tone
- 17 Hotboxing?
Don't know how to cite properly
The summary article I used was http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040842811002319 Chinaman88 (talk) 09:11, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Citation 12 down
Citation 12, used 4 times in the article redirects to a 404 page. It's an important one: Study Finds No Link Between Marijuana Use and Lung Cancer
http://www.thoracic.org/sections/publications/press-releases/conference/articles/study-finds-no-link-between-marijuana-use-and-lung-cancer.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 23:46, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- As of December 2011, that reference is still 404-ing. And I agree, it's definitely an important one. Galatix27 03:11, 7 December 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Galatix27 (talk • contribs)
Please reread Wikipedia:NOTHOWTO
The above cited individual and one other editor have made it a point to ban entirely from WP cannabis-related articles the following technical references:
Not only does WP not ban references to wikiHow.com, the above cited rule explicitly encourages consulting it! If Wikipedia articles are not to read like a how-to guide, then the correct recourse is to add links helping readers seeking such information to find their way to it.
Lung Cancer vs. Paraneoplastic Syndromes
Suggesting cannabis is cancer safe because of lower lung cancer incidences compared to chemically altered commercial tobacco is misleading. Use of organic tobaccos also have a much lower lung cancer incidence rate, such as are found in better quality Cuban cigars. What is not addressed along with the suggestion that cannabis is cancer safe are higher paraneoplastic syndrome incidences, and higher incidence of the rarer cancers. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 18:41, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Re: SPS (wikiHow.com: How to Make Smoke Pipes From Everyday Objects)
1. "Self-published media, such as... open wikis... are largely not acceptable as sources." Note the hedging adverb "largely"! References to a source such as wikiHow stand or fall, i.e. can or can not be considered "reliable", not on the basis of whether they are self-published but rather on the basis of the truthfulness and accuracy of information provided (on which you have not commented at all).
2. WP:NOTHOWTO specifically states: "If you are interested in a "how-to" type of manual, you may want to look at wikiHow, How to Wiki or our sister project, Wikibooks." This must be seen as an endorsement of the practice of citing a wikiHow article as a source, in that such a citation actually makes it possible to omit how-to directions from WP itself.
3. To avoid denial of service to Wikipedia clients, especially young persons seeking trustworthy information about controversial subjects such as cannabis, a certain opportunism is expressly permitted (WP:Ignore All Rules). Failure to include a reference to descriptions of how to make harm reduction equipment (in this case for those contemplating smoking) may put such vulnerable clients at the mercy of "headshops" which notoriously practice rip-off pricing and push heavily glamorized hot burning overdose equipment (wide bowl-diameter pipes etc.). This question of dosage size in my opinion rivals that of avoiding mixtures with tobacco in importance as a public health issue.Tokerdesigner (talk) 21:47, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Edits by Tokerdesigner
Like many other editors, I continue to revert the flippant and original research edits by Tokerdesigner. Adding "hot burning" everywhere possible, adding visual estimates, how-to, all unsourced and based on his singular experiences. Now he threatens retaliation of my Coffin Joe articles. --Mjpresson (talk) 17:20, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
I replaced the preposterous "Midwack" leader image with the more common image of a man smoking a joint, article is titled Cannabis smoking. Editor Tokerdesigner is obsessed with Midwacks and puts the image everywhere possible. --Mjpresson (talk) 19:56, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
"Image change"-- in whose interest?
The above-signed editor is, among other recent exploits, prosecuting this editor on the WP:Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents page, seeking a one-week ban from editing, based on accusations of Tokerdesigner "threatening" Mjpresson which remain unproven. The above-referenced insertion of "common image of a man smoking a joint" at the top of the article could be an indication of User:Mjpresson's actual intentions: if User:Tokerdesigner is banned, perhaps there would be a week-long "run" on cannabis-related articles seeking to remove/suppress any information (especially pictures) of alternative methods of administration of cannabis which could threaten the hegemony of the cigarette industry (which depends on unhealthy overdose delivery systems for its profit margin, and reaches among cannabis users to recruit further victims for nicotine addiction). More WP:SPAM would be added instead, to promote the idea that there are no alternatives available, therefore you better just roll a "joint" instead. (Any picture of a joint is a picture of a cigarette; any picture of a person smoking a cigarette, especially perched at the top of an article like this with 1000 hits a day, is cigarette advertising.)
Other pro-overdose and pro-tobacco-addiction strategies of Mjpresson include removing from illustrations any mention of estimated serving size, such as "500 mg" on a picture of a joint and "25 mg" on an adjoining picture of a dosage reduction utensil which could lead users seeking information about "Cannabis smoking" options to make a more rational choice of procedure, and deleting from the Hashish article the Australian Department of Health warning against mixing cannabis with tobacco "which can lead to unintended nicotine addiction" (see 18 consecutive Mjpresson edits there).
User:Mjpresson is a capable writer and could contribute much valuable work to Wikipedia. However he/she appears to be acting as an agent to promote a pro-cigarette-industry point of view on WP, therefore may have a conflict of interest which invalidates any claim to edit cannabis-related articles.
(Because Mjpresson has suggested curtailing or even erasing some of Tokerdesigner's defense argument at WP:ANI on grounds that it is too long (to hell with democracy?) I intend to discuss that case, and the present edits, further at WP:WikiProject Cannabis, referenced at the top of this page, providing links thereto at WP:ANI.)
In the interest of offering positive suggestions what to do about the articleCannabis smoking:
1. It should include explanations which help readers understand the difference between "smoking" and "vaporizing"-- including the fact the "smoke" (combustion effluent) contains nothing worth inhaling, rather the desirable ingredients (such as cannabinoids) are harvested from a narrow zone adjacent to the part of the herb which is burning, and heated by it. The fast, high temperature burning of a cigarette or joint thus permits some vapors to be obtained, but a high percentage of cannabinoid is combusted before it has time to vaporize. With a small, narrow utensil, one can heat the material for many seconds before letting it catch on fire, obtaining more cannabinoid and avoiding carbon monoxide, combustion toxins etc. which for decades have been producing avoidable "drug effects" ignorantly blamed on cannabis and supporting demands for prohibition (which works to the advantage of the tobacco industry).
2. Instead of separating tobacco and cannabis administration utensils into different articles, it may be more informative to address the difference between inhalant and non-inhalant smoking. Sources indicate that the majority of "smokers" worldwide are inhalant users-- including almost all cannabis users and almost all tobacco cigarette users; these can benefit by using utensils which maximize the inhalation of vapors and minimize the inhalation of combustion toxins ("smoke"). Outside the desirable but more expensive vaporizer, such utensils include ""one-hitters", the antique calumet, the kiseru, yes, Mj, the midwakh, the sebsi and certain long-stemmed Jamaican chillums. Non-inhalant users, such as User:Frotz who writes about large, non-inhalant pipes at tobacco-related articles, pump strong-tasting, harsh tobaccos around the oral and nasal cavities, absorbing nicotine into the brain via the mucous membranes, rather than attempting to inhale the material into the bloodstream as cigarette smokers do. Because, according to the World Health Organization, cigarettes cause 6,000,000 deaths a year worldwide, it would be highly desirable to persuade cigarette users to switch either to non-inhalant tobacco use like Frotz with his calabash or to an inhalant dosage miniaturization utensil which permits vaporization instead of "smoking".A 2008 fund-raising slogan seen daily on pages here read: "Help Wikimedia change the world!" What more important change than to provide information making it possible to replace "smoking" with vaporization utensils-- both for tobacco and for cannabis-- which could eliminate a 6,000,000-per-year death toll? Let us help Wikimedia live up to its slogans and keep the promise made to readers who have contributed money.Tokerdesigner (talk) 00:40, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
- Note: Tokerdesigner is being appealed to be blocked for these types of edits. Reverted. Tokerdesigner should consider laying off this type of edit while under blockade discussion.Mjpresson (talk) 04:31, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Before adding the last, possibly taunting comment, above, Mjpresson had't seen all revisions and improvements (including bolds) I made to my previous statement. Sorry, Mj. Also, Mj didn't wait for the close of voting to make 20 more deletions from the same articles under discussion.Tokerdesigner (talk) 01:11, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Tokerdesigner needs to stop
Tokerdesigner is under a block appeal  and should refrain from disrupting the images on the page. He feels that the photo promotes smoking joints. So what. The title of the article is Cannabis smoking and there is a pic of a man smoking a joint which is very contextual.--Mjpresson (talk) 00:37, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Vaporizing is not smoking
There were 2 images of vaporizers in this article which is excessive as vaporizing is not smoking, the images should stress smoking images per title of article. Stress on vaporizer images can go on the vaporizer page.Mjpresson (talk) 17:08, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
- I agree - vaporising ≠ smoking. It can be dealt with at the parent article of cannabis consumption and Vaporizer (cannabis). That was backed up by the reference used in the pipe section titled "Vaporization as a smokeless cannabis delivery system" - clearly shouldn't be included here. SmartSE (talk) 08:40, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
prev) 16:05, 22 June 2011 Mjpresson (talk
- "Vaporizing needs emphasis because it is a less unhealthy alternative to "smoking"" - quite simply, no it doesn't - that is your personal belief, not backed up by any policy. If you can find strong references discussing how it is less unhealthy than smoking a joint, then include this in the health effects section, but not it doesn't merit a section in this article. SmartSE (talk) 08:32, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Please discuss the following edit sequence:
What is "not contextual" about helping readers seeking information about "Cannabis smoking" find out about low-dosage utensils which can substitute for wasteful, unhealthy "joint smoking"?
Note that the same editor who deletes the link to the "One-hitter (smoking)" article has also deleted several pictures (of equipment other than cigarette papers!) from that article, deleted the Australian Department of Health warning against mixing with tobacco (in "joints") from the "Hashish" and "Cannabis smoking" articles, and positioned a "person smoking a joint" (cigarette advert) atop the "Cannabis smoking" article. Why?Tokerdesigner (talk) 23:40, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Should this be called "Smoking of cannabis"?
Or something else? It's a legitimate topic and decently written, but the title strikes me odd. Not quite sure what the MoS would say. Anyone else watching this page? WWB (talk) 06:25, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
- I think "Cannabis smoking" is a more appropriate naming than "Smoking of cannabis". If you got a better alternative for the naming, feel free to come with suggestions. Mikael Häggström (talk) 00:08, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
I removed a lot of material that was not specifc to smoking, since general information is covered in the main article Cannabis (drug)). I also paired down the Health Effects section to a summary, since this is covered in the main article Effects of cannabis. The article is now about "cannabis smoking" and not a rambling narrative on cannabis in general. Stephen Charles Thompson (talk) 16:25, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
(Deleted from Health Effects)
Cannabis can be habit-forming and the development of cannabis dependence in some users has been well established;
its effects on intelligence, memory, respiratory functions and the possible relationship of cannabis use to mental disorders such as schizophrenia, psychosis, depersonalization disorder and depression are still under discussion.
In 1999 a paper summarized that "There is little direct evidence that THC or other cannabinoids are carcinogenic" but that epidemiological studies indicate that smoking cannabis may cause the development of head and neck carcinomas and for carcinomas of the respiratory tract in humans and "some experimental results suggest that cannabinoids may cause chromosomal damage" and that "cannabinoids represent several risks in terms of chronic toxicity". "By contrast, cannabis smoke is carcinogenic in rodents and mutagenic in the Ames test."  In humans it has been more difficult to definitively prove.
In September 2011, the University of Colorado Cancer Center published a paper which summarized the current status of Marijuana in the United States.
As of 2012, there is conflicting data on the correlations between various forms of cancer and cannabis use as studied in members of a US health management organization (HMO). In a study of 60,855 insured patients by HMOs showed "no increased risk of HNSCC, lung, colorectal, melanoma, or breast cancers in current or former cannabis smokers versus never smokers or experimenters when controlled for tobacco use, alcohol intake, and socioeconomic status."  However, the study did find an increase of prostate and cervical cancers. In another study of 105,005 HMO members, "found an increased risk of malignant primary gliomas (RR 2.8, 95% CI 1.3–6.2) in people who smoked cannabis once per month or more. Smaller studies have implicated cannabis use in the development of bladder cancer  and testicular germ cell tumors.
Head and Neck Squamous Cell Carcinoma risk (HNSCC)
As of September 2011 are currently 3 studies which show an increased risk of HNSCC and 7 (3 Large) studies which show no association. Studies which support HNSCC show that users of cannabis "had a 2.6-fold (95% CI 1.1–6.6) increased risk of HNSCC compared with blood-bank controls when adjusted for cannabis dose, duration of use, and confounding variables such as alcohol or tobacco use. Similarly, heavy cannabis smokers in Northern Africa had an odds ratio of 2.62."  In addition, "a recent study found that human papilloma virus (HPV)-16 positive HNSCC was associated with increased cannabis smoking intensity (joints per month, p = 0.007), duration (in years, p = 0.01), and cumulative joint-years (one joint year equals one joint per day per year, p = 0.003) when adjusted for alcohol and tobacco use." 
Other studies have not shown a correlation between cannabis smoking and HNSCC. "Two small, population-based case–control studies of oral cavity and oropharyngeal cancers in England did not find an association between cannabis use and HNSCC"  and "Another small case–control study from New Zealand found no association between cannabis use and HNSCC once adjusted for tobacco and alcohol intake."  In large population based case control studies by the INHANCE Consortium, "no link between cannabis use and HNSCC was found when controlled for alcohol and tobacco use."  In another study from Boston "found that, after adjusting for confounders, 10–20 years of cannabis use was actually associated with a significantly reduced risk of HNSCC." 
A major 2006 study compared the effects of tobacco and cannabis smoke on the lungs. The outcome of the study showed that even very heavy cannabis smokers "do not appear to be at increased risk of developing lung cancer," while the same study showed a twenty-fold increase in lung cancer risk for tobacco smokers who smoked two or more packs of tobacco cigarettes a day. It is known that cannabis smoke, like all smoke, contains carcinogens and thus subjects exposed persons to some increase in the risk of lung cancer, but THC, unlike nicotine, is thought to "encourage aging cells to die earlier and therefore be less likely to undergo cancerous transformation." Cannabidiol (CBD), an isomer of THC and another major cannabinoid that is also present in cannabis, also has been reported elsewhere to have anti-tumor properties.
Lung cancer risk and lung function
As of 2012, there is conflicting data on the correlation of an increase in the incidence of lung cancer and cannabis smoking. "A systematic review evaluating 19 studies from 1966 to 2006  found no significant tobacco-adjusted association between cannabis smoking and lung cancer development despite evidence of precancerous histopathologic changes of the respiratory mucosa."  An INHANCE Consortium study showed that after analyzing 1200 lung cancer cases, there were no correlations between lung cancer and cannabis use. However, a pooled analysis of three studies of male cannabis smokers in North Africa found that the odds ratio for developing lung cancer was 2.4 (95% CI, 1.6–3.8) for cannabis smokers. A case control study of patients with lung cancer under 55 years of age in New Zealand found an 8% (95% CI, 2–15) increased risk for each joint-year (one joint/day/year) of cannabis use. This effect persisted only in the highest tertile of cannabis use (>10.5 joint-years of exposure) when adjusted for tobacco use (RR 5.7, 95% CI 1.5–21.6).
A 2008 study (later quoted in a 2012 survey of the field by the British Lung Foundation ) argued that the way cannabis is smoked compared to tobacco (such as the tendency not to use filters; and deeper, longer inhaling) made the risk of developing lung cancer from smoking a single cannabis cigarette daily the equivalent of smoking a pack of 20 cigarettes a day "despite similar carbon monoxide concentrations in the smoke". The 2008 study did not investigate the increased lung cancer risk of smoking a single tobacco cigarette daily, or twenty cannabis cigarettes daily, so the subsequent the claim by the 2012 British Lung Cancer foundation review which extrapolated that "a typical cannabis cigarette increases the smoker’s risk of developing lung cancer by 20 times the amount of one tobacco cigarette." was not derived from the study it based its claim on.
(deleted from summary)
Cannabis is consumed for a variety of reasons including its hallucinogenic and sedative effects for recreation, to produce a feeling of euphoria, medical therapy or to suppress nausea, or by inventors and artists in pursuit of creativity.
- It then mostly targets the brain, where it binds to cannabinoid receptors. The immune system also contains cannabinoid receptors and may modulate its function. The cannabinoid receptors receive the THC and other cannabinoids, leading to the feeling of a mental "high," which varies strongly by person.
- Studies have also found that the heating of cannabis (which can be achieved without the health hazards of combustion by means of a vaporizer) results in the production of additional THC from the decarboxylation of the non-psychoactive Δ9-tetrahydrocanabinoid acid (THCa).
Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2013
|This edit request has been answered. Set the
Remove text "and users are led to smoke more." from Reference number 10.
- Not done: This page is no longer protected. Subject to consensus, you should be able to edit it yourself. Jackmcbarn (talk) 04:12, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
The phrase "stoned off your ass" appears in the article text, this is not encyclopaedic tone, nor does the word "stoned" appear in the citation given. Suggest removal/rewriting the offending phrase. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 18:19, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
- "Mutagenicity, developmental toxicity and carcinogenicity of cannabis", Addiction Biology 4 (1), 1999: 5–12, doi:10.1080/13556219971786
- Daniel W. Bowlesa et al. (2011-09-30), "The intersection between cannabis and cancer in the United States", Critical Reviews in Oncology/Hematology (ScienceDirect.com), doi:10.1016/j.critrevonc.2011.09.008, PMID 22019199, retrieved 2012-04-06
- S. Sidney, J. E. Beck, I. S. Tekawa, C. P. Quesenberry, G. D. Friedman (April 1997), "Marijuana use and mortality", American Public Health Association 87 (4): 585–590, doi:10.2105/AJPH.87.4.585, retrieved 2012-03-06
- "The Risk for Malignant Primary Adult-Onset Glioma in a Large, Multiethnic, Managed-Care Cohort: Cigarette Smoking and Other Lifestyle Behaviors", Journal of Neuro-Oncology (SpringerLink) 68 (1), 2004, doi:10.1023/B:NEON.0000024746.87666.ed, retrieved 2012-03-06
- "Association between marijuana use and transitional cell carcinoma", Urology 67 (1), January 2006: 100–104, doi:10.1016/j.urology.2005.07.005
- "Marijuana use and testicular germ cell tumors", American Cancer Society 117 (4), 2011-02-15: 848–853, doi:10.1002/cncr.25499
- "Cannabis, tobacco and domestic fumes intake are associated with nasopharyngeal carcinoma in North Africa", British Journal of Cancer (Nature.com) 101 (7), 2004-01-01: 1207–1212, doi:10.1038/sj.bjc.6605281, retrieved 2012-03-06
- "Distinct Risk Factor Profiles for Human Papillomavirus Type 16–Positive and Human Papillomavirus Type 16–Negative Head and Neck Cancers", Journal of the National Cancer Institute 100 (6), 2008: 407–420, doi:10.1093/jnci/djn025, PMID 18334711, retrieved 2012-03-06
- "Risk factors for oral cancer in newly diagnosed patients aged 45 years and younger: a case–control study in Southern England", Journal of Oral Pathology & Medicine 33 (9), October 2004: 525–532, doi:10.1111/j.1600-0714.2004.00222.x, retrieved 2012-03-06
- "An analysis of risk factors for oral cancer in young people: a case-control study", Oral Oncology (Sciencedirect.com) 40 (3), March 2004: 304–313, doi:10.1016/j.oraloncology.2003.08.015, retrieved 2012-03-06
- "Marijuana Use and Risk of Oral Squamous Cell Carcinoma", Addiction Biology 4 (1), January 1999: 5–12, doi:10.1080/13556219971786, retrieved 2012-03-06
- "Marijuana Smoking and the Risk of Head and Neck Cancer: Pooled Analysis in the INHANCE Consortium", Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prevention, May 2009, doi:10.1158/1055-9965.EPI-08-0845, retrieved 2012-03-06
- "Marijuana Use and the Risk of Lung and Upper Aerodigestive Tract Cancers: Results of a Population-Based Case-Control Study", Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prevention, October 2006: 1829, doi:10.1158/1055-9965.EPI-06-0330, PMID 17035389, retrieved 2012-03-06
- "A Population-Based Case-Control Study of Marijuana Use and Head and Neck Squamous Cell Carcinoma", Cancer Prevention Research, 2009-07-28, doi:10.1158/1940-6207.CAPR-09-0048, retrieved 2012-03-06
- Boyles, Salynn. “Pot Smoking Not Linked to Lung Cancer,” WebMED Health News. May 23, 2006. (Retrieved 2009-09-05.)
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- Armentano, Paul. “Cannabis Smoke and Cancer: Assessing the Risk,” NORML: Working to reform marijuana laws. No publication date. (Retrieved 2009-09-05.)
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- Verhoeckx KC, Korthout HA, van Meeteren-Kreikamp AP, Ehlert KA, Wang M, van der Greef J, Rodenburg RJ, Witkamp RF (2006-04-06). "Unheated Cannabis sativa extracts and its major compound THC-acid have potential immuno-modulating properties not mediated by CB1 and CB2 receptor coupled pathways". International immunopharmacology (International Immunopharmacology) 6 (4): 656–65. doi:10.1016/j.intimp.2005.10.002. PMID 16504929.