Talk:Carl Ballantine

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Birthday[edit]

What is his true birthday? Sources seem split upon him being 92 years old when he died, or being born in 1922?142.207.79.170 (talk) 09:38, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Edits by Tim Gruber[edit]

His parents' names are documented by his birth record as cited. The name of the episode on which he appeared on the Monkees is sourced by the episode itself. The fact that he was in the movie The Shakiest Gun in the West is also evidenced by the movie itself (i.e. source = recorded media) and it is also in the Wikipedia page about the movie (if it's not valid here then it can't be valid there either). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim Gruber (talkcontribs) 18:24, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Website Vigilantism[edit]

Binksternet appears to have no regard for whether something is factual and has undone these edits by Tim Gruber and myself and even seems to go out of his way to undo other edits in their entirety we have done regardless of the subject or article and no matter what the edits are. The fact is Carl Ballantine was in the movie McHale's Navy (1964 film). It is a fact that his character in the movie and in the TV series was Lester Gruber (which he was most famous for and his name and character's names are listed on the Wikipedia pages for these two subjects). The fact is he was in the particular episode of the TV series The Monkees as indicated. He was in the movie The Shakiest Gun in the West (his name is even listed on the Wikipedia page about the movie). These are facts that can be found on any detailed website about the movies or TV series. I didn't cite them because their source is pretty the same as mine, the actual videos of the movies and TV series themselves (in other words I suggest not betting any money that these assertions about Carl Ballantine are wrong). I don't know if these facts were ever written in any published book, magazine or newspaper by some scholar or author as Binksternet demands. But watch the shows and the movies and there is no dispute. Why not say so? His birth record shows his parents which would be acceptable in any court and by any professional genealogist (like me). In fact such a record would be taken as the best proof of his parentage (certainly far more than any newspaper article which are notorious for mistakes). But Binksternet decided that was unacceptable because it wasn't published in some book, magazine or newspaper by a scholar or author or other source he considers acceptable according to his fanatical interpretation of how Wikipedia works. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.121.102.98 (talkcontribs)

Don't pretend that IP 64.121.102.98 is not Tim Gruber. It is extremely easy to search online and see the close connection between the name Tim Gruber and the geolocation of 64.121.102.98. It is also easy to see that Gruber is interested in compiling historical documents such as ancestry information. Unfortunately, on Wikipedia such ancestry information often fails the test of WP:Reliable sources, which is why I have been removing it here. The website www.familysearch.org is run by volunteers and the content has little oversight.
The text that you want to add runs afoul of WP:No original research. You wrote that Ballantine is "probably best known for his role as the hustler Lester Gruber" which is unsupported by watching the TV episodes. You wrote, "His fast talking scheming character was forever trying to find ways to make a make money which usually failed and/or got the crew in trouble." Again, this analysis is not supported by watching any one single episode but is instead an impression taken from watching lots of episodes. Such an impression/analysis should be left to WP:Secondary sources. Binksternet (talk) 17:35, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Again be careful about ass-u-me-ing. Tim Gruber and I are both interested in genealogy and both live in the same area. We are interested in some of the same old time TV shows and are friends (gee, imagine that, two people having some of the same interests, live in the same area and are friends, what are the odds).
Familysearch is run by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which has high standards, run very professionally, are tops in the field of genealogical research and takes great pains to get it right as it is a very important part of their ecclesiastical duties (so they’re not the amateurs you suggest and no I'm not a member). Their records are far more accurate and reliable than say Ancestry.com which is known for its mistakes (believe me pal, Tim and I have over 60 years of genealogical experience behind us, we know what we're talking about). Besides you told Tim Gruber it wasn’t an acceptable source because it wasn’t published in a book, magazine, etc written by an author, scholar, etc rather than because of where it came from.
You didn't remove just those parts of the edits you felt were simply analysis such as "His fast talking scheming character was forever trying to find ways to make a make money which usually failed and/or got the crew in trouble." You removed the entire edit and all the information including that fact that his character's name was Lester Gruber and that he was in the 1964 movie McHale's Navy. Again, you don't care if something is true or not and apparently you don't like edits Tim Gruber has done no matter how factual they are or how much better they are then the previous material including material that was totally unreferenced and even vague such as 'on a Monkees episode' (no name, number or air date).
But if you want more than just our word for any of this look at:
http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-carl-ballantine5-2009nov05,0,6542290.story#axzz2t1NiMpy9
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/obituaries/articles/2009/11/13/carl_ballantine_mchales_navy_actor_was_a_leading_comic_magician_at_92/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0050535/
http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9E02E3DF113FEE32A25752C1A9619C946591D6CF
http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/83147/McHale-s-Navy/
http://www.amazon.com/McHales-Navy-Season-Ernest-Borgnine/dp/B000M8N412
The list goes on for hundreds of pages. But most of the information comes from obits, which are often full of mistakes, and the videos of the shows and movies he was in rather than some book by some scholar, etc as you initially demanded. Unlike what you have repeatedly suggested, implied, etc this is what Wikipedia actually says about videos: "However, audio, video, and multimedia materials that have been recorded then broadcast, distributed, or archived by a reputable party may also meet the necessary criteria to be considered reliable sources." Certainly videos of McHale's Navy, etc falls into this catagory and since these are not written sources (but acceptable to Wikipedia) there is but one way to get information from the recordings into written form and that is by someone watching the shows and movies and writing something about them. And not everything about the show can be summed up by simply quoting something said in the series especially in one episode alone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.121.102.98 (talk) 15:26, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

They are right about the vigilantism. Binksternet seems more concerned with who does an edit than the content. As a member of LDS I resent Binksternet's his dismissive attitude about familysearch.org. And may I point out that Wikipedia is run by volunteers and only volunteers. Should we be as dismissive of Wikipedia as he has been about familysearch? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.186.129.33 (talk) 15:44, 27 February 2014 (UTC)