Talk:Carl Levin

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10 Best Senators[edit]

Time magazine just named Mr. Levin one of the top ten senators currently serving in congress. I believe someone sould add something about it. Link to article http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1184028,00.html --The Sess 13:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Press[edit]

he really did literally , expressly state that that's what he was talking about at the PRess Club speech. maybe you haven't looked closely at the language of that speech. Kɔffeedrinksyou 16:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

This seems to be biased towards Carl Levin in the whole Bills and Policies section ("Senator Levin is perhaps best known for his working of improving the ethics of the federal government"). It also seems to be against Canada in the environment section. Qmwne235, 19:02, 28 July 2006

I agree! The Bills and Policies section reads almost like something off his official web site or campaign site. There are no external references or sources quoted for the praise that Levin's policies receive in this section. (Disclaimer: I grew up in Michigan and am personally a supporter of Senator Levin.) Moxfyre 16:24, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I addressed the points mentioned above in the article, and removed the NPOV tag. Morris 12:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Comb over[edit]

Carl Levin is the featured person in the Comb over article, and as such, I believe a link to said article should be included. Unfortunately, one Wikipedia user disagrees with me and keeps reverting my inclusion of said link. Not only that, but he convinced a moderator I am in violation of the 3rr, despite the fact I corrected the article only once. Linking to the article is not pejorative or slanderous, the man obviously has a comb-over; it is perfectly relevant. Professor London 22:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not an administrator, Professor London, and User:Abe.Froman didn't ask anyone to intervene. I noticed these edits, reverted a clear addition of nonsense to the article, and notified you that you were about to violate WP:3RR. There is no legitimate reason to add this link to an article about a United States Senator. -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 22:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
second that. Abe Froman 22:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The picture up now is way better, anyway. Thanks!Professor London 00:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Energy Policy[edit]

Following the sentence

In 2005, Congress passed the 2005 Energy Policy.

I inserted this HTML comment, which is of course invisible except when editing the article or viewing the source:

What bill is this, and why is this discussion here? The Energy Policy Act of 2005, S.10, was sponsored by Sen. Pete Domenici (R-NM) and had zero cosponsors. In particular, Carl Levin didn't cosponsor this bill, so why is this discussion here?

Articles aren't really the right place for such comments, so I will remove the comment along with the entire discussion on the bill, unless someone can tie this bill to Sen. Levin. Anomalocaris 20:17, 11 May 2007 (UTC)


I in all honesty the entire Energy section shouldn't be here after the first brief paragraph. It is all analysis/opinion, and is not really fitting for an encyclopedia. 156.33.26.85 17:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)Chuddery

Quality of the Article[edit]

The article is very sparsely cited. It's not well-written. It is just a series of isolated statements. There is very little transition, even within sections. It has many current, topical statements, but not enough biographical/encyclopaedic information for a man who has spent so many years in public service. I'm also not sure it stands up to NPOV. It reads more like a puff piece. I am the Botendaddy 00:44, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I was asked at my talk to look in on this article. I think there is merit in your assessment. I suggest if you're interested, that you spend some time finding references for those things you think are most unreferenced. However edit warring over new material is probably not a good way to start. ++Lar: t/c 14:00, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I have started in on it. Some problems I found already are that The New York Daily News was cited verbatim in the opening paragraph without quotes or reference. Much of the rest of the article seems to have been taken whole-cloth from a site called "whorunsgov". This is going to take some time to get to any reasonable level of quality. I am going to look at some of the other Wikipedia pages for U.S Senators and see if there are any that are especiialy well-written and cited. I am the Botendaddy 00:39, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The lack of military service edit has been removed again because there is no bonafied journalistic citation which specifically states that the senator never served in the military and the official government site does not support the disputed edit so it has been removed. Steelbeard1 (talk) 00:49, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The official site makes no mention of his ever having performed military service under any of his professional background and qualifications. It absolutely supports the citation. It is beyond dispute that the sources cited are bonafide. I am the Botendaddy 01:13, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

But they are NOT, again NOT bonafied journalistic citations that specifically state the info which should support the edit. Steelbeard1 (talk) 01:21, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It IS, IS a bonafide journalistic source, its repeatedly referenced by people of both political parties. I request mediation by an unbiased source. I question your criteria for what is a bonafide source. The official bio clearly demonstrates that Levin has never served in the US military. I am the Botendaddy 01:32, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Not they ARE NOT bonafied journalistic citations. One is from Juan Cabanela, another is from "Freedom Speaks" and the third is from Chad A. Miles. The official site from Senator Levin does not specifically state anything about military service or Levin not serving in the military. Journalistic sources are newspapers, broadcast news sources or other unbiased news services. Steelbeard1 (talk) 01:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with you. I have submitted this to dispute resolution. You are using sophistry to try to get me to prove a negative. In Senator Levin's Official bio he makes no mention of military service. Every source of any kind that refers to Senator Levin's military service is either blank or states that he did not serve. I am the Botendaddy 01:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I reported the edit warring to the Biography of Living Persons noticeboard. Steelbeard1 (talk)

I can't war on my own, let's see if they get to the substance of the dispute. I am the Botendaddy 01:47, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the reports, it looks as if I am correct. Steelbeard1 (talk) 02:30, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
Botendaddy received a 24 hour block. Steelbeard1 (talk) 17:03, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

All this aside (Steelbeard1 and I are at peace), there is a fascinating story which is the rise and fall of Detroit. Detroit expanded very rapidly and declined-twice. Levin was President of the Detroit City Council there in the mid-70s after the decline of the City was in full swing. The internet has a lack of depth on this story, so if anyone has any books or other references it might be interesting to see what policies Levin advocated to try to stabilize the city at that time. This is a big gap in his bio. Just as Senator Feinstein's epic bio was really her times on the San Francisco Assembly, we could see the roots of Levin's worldview in his time in Detroit. I am the Botendaddy 14:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)



Armed Services Committee Chair With Zero Military Experience?[edit]

Is it true that Levin chairs the Armed Services Committee, but has zero military experience himself? If so, that would explain Levin's naivete. But I assume that, if even the slightest critical analysis were put in the main article, it would be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.153.18 (talk) 03:30, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I have added this point. I have cited it to his biography. It is not intended as a criticism, but rather as a statement of fact. We do have a military that is subordinate to civilian control under our Constitution, so it is not a requirement, but much like Dick Cheney, it could affect one's understanding of the limits of the use or non-use of the projection of force, so it is certainly relevant. I am the Botendaddy 21:54, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

The "citation" does not mention anything about the senator either serving or not serving in the armed forces so it does not support the edit in question. Steelbeard1 (talk)

The "citations" I just added, there is a place to record military experience. None is listed. There is no official biography that lists him having any military experience. I am the Botendaddy 22:09, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I just found a third cite stating verbatim that he has no military service. I don't have a dog in this hunt politically. I am the Botendaddy 22:17, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Of those "citations" the first two give "professional experience (including military experience)" which clearly does not imply military service. The third one is of a questionable merit because it was set up by an individual who does not give his sources. Until there is a reliable source indicating actual military service, it should not be included in the article. Steelbeard1 (talk) 01:07, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

All of the sources I cited are reliable. It's your POV that these sources are not reliable. Levin's own Senate biography does not list any military service. Every time period from High School Graduation through his legal career is accounted for with no military experience stated. It is a circular argument. I am the Botendaddy 11:37, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

To be reliable, they either must come from bonafied journalistic sources or from official U.S. government web sites. Steelbeard1 (talk) 12:41, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Show me your source in Wikipedia rules that says the cites are not bonafide. The whoserved site is heavily used and heavily documented. I also have cited again to his official government bio. If you revert again without submitting to dispute resolution then I will report it as vandalism. I am the Botendaddy 00:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

See WP:NPOV, Botendaddy. You are giving undue weight to a non-issue. Military service is not required for the role. The idea is that the military is overseen by civilian authority. Jack Merridew 02:15, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

His lack of military service does get mention in the press [1][2] but whether this is helpful to the article is, of course, debatable. If he were a major hawk without a military background would it be more relevant (i.e.Dick Cheney)? I think so. Eudemis (talk) 15:41, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The CQ Roll Call article above link does provide plenty of material about Senator Levin and because he is NOT a major hawk (unlike Dick Cheney) the fact that the senator never served in the military is a very minor issue and certainly does not belong in the lead. Steelbeard1 (talk) 16:18, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I used the CQ Roll Call article to find an acceptable way of stating that Levin never served using his own words in the Armed Services section of the article. Steelbeard1 (talk) 16:32, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Steelbeard1 you are a man of true integrity. I suppose I could have stated it less POV. I apologize for the edit war. btw I am no fan of Cheney. I am the Botendaddy 17:45, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Basic Math[edit]

I am posting this information after noting a common error in representing election results in this article. I hope I don't need to source the distinction between representing a percent as a decimal and visa-versa. Percents indicate a number out of one hundred. For instance 5 is 5% of 100, 10 is 5% of 200 and so on. One can represent these as decimals sans the percent sign so 5% may also be written as 0.05, not 0.05%. Placement of the percent sign after the number implies division by 100, so 0.05% would represent 5 out of 10,000 not 5 out of 100.Libertyguy (talk) 14:08, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Recall campaign[edit]

The recall campaign section was deleted for two reasons. One is that there are no bonafied non-biased journalistic citations. The citations given were extremely biased. The other reason is a Constitutional amendment is required to recall elected Federal officials as shown at [3] and [4] Steelbeard1 (talk) 16:42, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

TITLE with CRC?[edit]

Was his title with the Michigan Civil Rights Commission really "State assistant police officer"? That certainly doesn't sound right! 75.200.153.39 (talk) 01:33, 29 August 2012 (UTC)