Talk:Carnot Posey

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Virginia 1861 discrepancies[edit]

Someone has added a note to the article, which I have removed because the discussion belongs here in the talk page. There are some significant discrepancies in the history of Posey in 1861. It says that his first combat was a skirmish at Corinth. Can anyone find a citation for that event? It also says that he fought at First Bull Run, but if you look at his regimental history -- http://www.norfield-publishing.com/16ms/DunbarExcerpt.html -- it indicates that the regiment did not fight there: "It was detained at Lynchburg, its destination being Manassas, and was ordered there August 8." (The battle was July 21.) It also says that he fought at Ball's Bluff, but the order of battle does not list the 16th Mississippi. If you look on the web, you'll find a number of articles that make these claims. In Clement Evans's Confederate Military History, volume 7, his biography includes "Posey entered the service of the Confederacy as colonel of the Sixteenth Mississippi. In this capacity he shared in the brilliant victory of First Manassas and in the smaller but no less decisive success at Leesburg, or Ball's Bluff, in October of the same year." This is very likely the source for these claims, although it is unclear exactly what "shared in the brilliant victory" means. It is interesting to note that Evans does not mention First Winchester or Cross Keys, in which Posey fought under Ewell. I recently got copies of The Confederate General (Davis and Hoffman, editors) and the article on Posey by Jeffry D. Wert says "the regiment traveled to Virginia but did not participate in the first battle of Manassas on July 21. The regiment remained in Virginia throughout the summer and fall of 1861." Do any of you Rebs out there have suggestions on how to proceed? Hal Jespersen (talk) 23:06, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

This is the discovery of source error. Posey wasn't at Ball's Bluff, or anywhere close to Leesburg or Edwards Ferry, based on my sources on Ball's Bluff. The 13th, 17th and 18th Mississippi were in Shanks Evans's 7th Confederate Brigade, but not the 16th. Pretty clear the 16th wasn't at Manassas either. Seems Boatner believed him without checking. Looks like a footnote to me. BusterD (talk) 00:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
D.S. Freeman's Lee's Lieutenants, vol. 2, p. 264 contains a letter from R.E. Lee dated Oct. 27, 1862. This letter recommends Posey for brigadier, to be given command of Featherson's Mississipi Brigade (13th, 16th, 17th, and 18th Miss at that time), but Featherston recovered from his illness quickly. Posey was therefore passed over (p. 266), along with James A. Walker and "Extra Billy" Smith. It appears Featherston decided to "go South," and Posey finally got the command, after January 17, 1863. Also on page 419, Freeman states in a footnote: "For Posey's record, in chronological order, see O.R. 51, pt.2, pp. 200, 206, 217; 5, p. 979; 12, pt.1, p. 783; 51, pt.2, p. 604; 12, pt.2, pp. 563, 567; 19, pt.1, p. 841(Freeman intends p. 842 here); 19, pt.2, pp. 683, 697, 703." BusterD (talk) 00:36, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
My reading of the above references from Lee's Lieutenants indicates that Posey and his 16th were in Corinth until after July 26, 1861.(51, pt.2, p. 200) It also appears that the 16th was not brigaded with Featherston's bunch at all. Posey's brigade commander should have been W.H.C. Whiting(5, p. 979). I can't prove Ball's Bluff(seems pretty unlikely), but Posey and the 16th were certainly NOT at 1st Bull Run. BusterD (talk) 01:37, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

This is all great research, but in the interest of NPOV, shouldn't the alternative opinions be mentioned, even if only in footnotes? So far, the only secondary source who seems to be right is Wert. I can provide that cite. Hal Jespersen (talk) 14:29, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Quite correct. The article reads correctly now. I'd suggest we footnote the end of that paragraph, and say something like "Some sources, like Clement Evans's Confederate Military History, volume 7, and Mark Boatner's The Civil War Dictionary place Posey at Bull Run and Ball's Bluff, but D.S. Freeman's Lee's Lieutenants (p. 419) and an article by Jeffry D. Wert in The Confederate General point out that Posey and his 16th Mississippi were unlikely to have appeared at either battle". BusterD public (talk) 17:44, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, I've updated it as suggested. Thanks. This article had quite a large number of inaccuracies, it turns out. Hal Jespersen (talk) 21:57, 24 March 2009 (UTC)