Talk:Carrie Chapman Catt

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Untitled[edit]

This article makes no mention of the reason why Chapman Catt is controversial: her outspoken racism. She said that "White supremacy will be strengthened, not weakened, by woman suffrage." She also said nasty things about Native Americans. It is important that these issues be discussed. —Sesel 01:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

add what you know to the article. Kingturtle 01:30, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
I created a new paragraph that addresses these allegations. It is well cited, so I hope everyone approves. Cfitzpatrick3 (talk) 15:43, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

On 2 Nov 06 I performed a complete upgrade of the accompanying article by replacing the previous text with a brief biographical note written for another purpose by Professor Robert Booth Fowler of the University of Wisconsin. Prof. Fowler is the leading authority on the life of Catt and consented to the use of this material. -- Nate Levin

One example of the laziness of this Wikipedia contribution: Carrie Chapman Catt promised President Wilson that the entire Suffrage movement would support the war (WWI). To suggest that she was simply a big peace activist is assinine. This article must be developed or deleted. -- Jeanmarie Simpson

Having spent considerable time studying Catt, I have no doubt that she was sincere in her anti-war beliefs. However, she was a supreme pragmatist and--I believe correctly--concluded that failing to fall into line behind the prevailing pro-war sentiment would have harmed NAWSA and the suffrage cause. Also, she was assiduously courting Wilson, and this too was probably sound strategy from a pragmatic point of view. It is notable that she spent much of the 1920s and 30s in antiwar activism, but with tragically ineffective results. -- Nate Levin (10 Nov 06)

The last few months have not been kind to this article--footnotes have been added while substance and meaning have been removed. This article may be something of a magnet for young, inept editors. If I knew how to do so easily, I would revert it to its condition as of ca. 6 months ago. 96.57.213.114 (talk)Nate Levin --June 2014 — Preceding undated comment added 18:42, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

This article is terrible.[edit]

This article needs serious clean-up, not only because it's terribly formatted and the references are screwy, but also because it's full of POV and weasel words. I'll remove the POV and weasel words as best I can. Jolb 01:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't feel this is an improvement over Prof. Fowler's text, but at least this is better than the article as it existed prior to Nov. 2006. In my edit today, 16 Mar 2007, I removed a sentence that seemed out of place.--Nate Levin

You know, there's hardly any information! I mean, if you're going to make an article, give me something I can use! Really. :(


This article lacks a lot of information[edit]

The Wikipedia article on Carrie Chapman Catt is mainly credible, since the information is authentic, gives a reasonable overview Catt’s life, and is for the mostly well-referenced with footnotes and external links. However, the content of the Wikipedia article is not as informative as the comparison text, "Carrie Chapman Catt,” written by Jacqueline Van Voris and published in American National Biography. Aside from lacking important detail, the Wikipedia article is far from being well organized, and is missing references in certain areas. Vois' article is much stronger in comparison to the Wikipedia article. To start off with, Vois provides a far more thorough examination of how Catt developed her organizational and administrative talents which ultimately attributed to her success as a women’s suffrage leader. Vois notes, for example, that Catt showed early signs of being a feminist at the age of thirteen. She was outraged when she found out that her mother was the denied the right to vote in the presidential election. Vois also explains how Catt orchestrated a women’s suffrage debate, joined a public speaking society and became a high school principal as well as superintendent of schools. Vois also gives a better account of the beginning of Catt's career as an activist, describing how Catt became coeditor of the Mason City Republican through her marriage with Leo Chapman who was editor of the paper. Catt spoke about numerous women’s rights issues in a section she started in the paper called “Woman’s World.” In a related effort, Catt joined the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union which advocated for women’s suffrage and also temperance reforms. Vois also gives a more thorough explanation of Catt's first campaign failure under the National American Woman Suffrage Association. Vois points out that Catt’s first campaign was full of minor conflicts and dishonest politicians. Vois explains that many of the local politicians were trying to defeat woman’s suffrage by marking the ballots for recent immigrants. Many of these immigrants were males who came from paternalistic cultures which made them prejudiced against women’s suffrage issues. Vois' coverage of Catt's overall work under the National American Woman Suffrage Association is also superior. Vois reveals that Catt started new local suffrage branches, improved local ones, sponsored new approaches of work and inspired large numbers of women to participate in the movement. Vois attributes Catt’s success under the National American Woman Suffrage Association to her marvelous stage presence and articulate voice. Catt also recruited suffragists and educated them by hiring speakers. Catt planned their trips, made all the arrangements and raised money all in order to maintain enthusiasm in suffrage. Vois makes a clear indication of the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago being Catt's turning point in her life, which the Wikipedia article failed to even mention. Vois reveals Catt was exposed to women from twenty-seven different countries that represented more than a hundred women’s suffrage organizations. Catt was heavily influenced to start an international organization of women, and she successfully did so in Washington D.C with the creation of the International Woman Suffrage Alliance. Vois also does a better job of explaining Catt’s role in the final passage of the suffrage amendment. Catt campaigned heavily in New York and organized suffrage parades which led to victories in New York and six other states. Catt’s efforts also led to an increase in the number of presidential electors for women and a Woman Suffrage Committee was established in the House. With Catt’s leadership, the Nineteenth Amendment finally became part of the Constitution. The major flaw in the Wikipedia article is its lack of content development. Facts just seem to be mentioned without any thorough detail or explanation. None of the information goes into much depth at all; it just skips to the next fact. The Wikipedia article's references appear to be non-scholarly; one comes from a school Web archive. Many others lack correct bibliographic information, making it hard to judge if their credible sources or not. The “Talk” page associated with the Wikipedia article touches on some of these weaknesses. “Jolb” dated March 2007 mentions the lack of information in the article. "Jolb" also criticized the article for being messy and terribly formatted. This article is still in need of major improvements and is very weak when compared to Vois' article. One final point of criticism of the Wikipedia article is its overall organization. The opening section provides a decent summary, but there is not an array of sub topical sections. There is only one section called “biography,” which gives a summary of her entire life jumping from one event to the next. Other information seems to appear at random throughout the article. Instead, it should have been broken up by sections, for example, “Early Life as an Activist, National American Woman Suffrage Association, International Women Suffrage Alliance, Passage of the Nineteenth Amendment, Post NAWSA and Death/Remembrance.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by RiyaadAli95 (talkcontribs) 15:33, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

--I've been following this page for quite a few years. The above comment has a lot of merit, and yet, can one expect that a random group of Wikipedia editors would come close to preparing the same quality of article as Ms. Van Voris, who is the author of a full-length biography of CCC? I think the current article is generally in better shape than it has been, and no doubt will continue to be improved. I would say the main flaw is that it omits the divide in the suffrage movement in the late 1910s between CCC's mainstream organization (NAWSA) and the militant National Woman's Party, led by Alice Paul. There are many people who believe that the NWP's picketing of the White House was the most important part of the suffrage battle. I don't quite subscribe to that myself, but the subject of the conflict between NAWSA and the NWP probably should be included if this article is to be substantially upgraded.

                            ~~Nate Levin  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.57.213.114 (talk) 19:11, 8 February 2014 (UTC) 

Birthplace?[edit]

South Dakota or Wisconsin? The main text says one thing, the info box by the photo another. Vincent pearse (talk) 16:06, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The Carrie Chapman Catt Center[edit]

I recall back in the late 1980s when the Carrie Chapman Catt Center for Women and Politics was being built on the Iowa State University campus. A few of Catt's more dubious racial statements were publicized and some of the contributors demanded their money back. It all got a bit ugly. 13.13.137.1 (talk) 23:24, 8 March 2011 (UTC)