Talk:Chabad messianism

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Immediate issues to work on[edit]

  • Its time to reorganize article and mostly refer to the 1990s onward messianism and reception in Jewish community. Evaluation of the messianist claim and historic precedents in Chabad should be placed at the end of the article and kept to an appropriate size
  • Replace all POV sources with neutral sources (e.g. publications by messianic Chabad individuals).
  • David Berger's book is treated as multiple sources, instead add the {rp|#} template to indicate page numbers.
  • Given the nature of Berger's POV relationship with Chabad (advocating for a Ban from modern Orthodox rabbis) the article should rely on the availabile academic sources on the topic.
  • Some content appears dated. Messianism in Chabad today may not be the same as it was 10 years ago, sources from recent years should take precedence in shaping the topic page. I.am.a.qwerty (talk) 09:01, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Recent cleanup attempt[edit]

I have attempted to begin a cleanup of this page, however many issues still stand. The points I have tried to address are:

  • removal of unnecessary background information where the sentence or paragraph does not directly relate to the topic but is used more as a "filler"
  • Joining and renaming sections headers (still more to do on this front)
  • removing some unnecessary photos of people only indirectly quoted or used in article (e.g. of chafetz chaim, rayatz, soloveitchik)
  • some pov language replaced

This work is far from complete. I.am.a.qwerty (talk) 09:06, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

More recent items:
  • merging smaller paragraphs together
  • moving messianist flag (which is representative of a faction within chabad) lower in the article, moved up a more generic sign to the top
  • removed the following dubiously sourced statement:
In a speech he gave in 1942, Joseph Ber Soloveitchik praised the efforts of the Chabad Lubavitch campaign to raise awareness to the coming of the mashiach. Soloveitchik said, "The Lubavitcher Rebbe speaks and publicizes about the Mashiach and a tumult has erupted, an uproar and an outcry. What is wrong, I ask? That people who are heretics decry him; I understand. That those who violate the Shabbat decry him; I understand. But that those who study the Talumud and Chassidus decry him; this is inconceivable...Are we not allowed to talk about the belief in the Mashiach anymore?"[1][dubious – discuss]
    • The source "Oiystzug Fun Der Rede 1943" is essentially a "speech excerpt", not the actual source of the speech. Likely this statement began as someone's recollection rather than an actual reliable source. If someone finds the actual source (perhaps in a book of speeches) then it may be re-added. I.am.a.qwerty (talk) 03:25, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
August 2021 update
  • reducing the use of quotes will help this article look less like a POV piece.
    • So far, I have removed a quote from one non-notable source that did not seem to merit inclusion in the article
    • I have paraphased several other quotes to simply summarize that person's position and view, or to describe the transpired events without the need for quoted language.
    • Additionally, there is no need to mention both the name of the publication (e.g. NY Times) as well as the article's author when referring to reporting of some person's view on the matter
    • references cited multiple times (e.g. David Berger and Joseph Telushkin books) are tagged once and a page reference template added to each citation where listed. I.am.a.qwerty (talk) 23:34, 12 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Yosef Dov Soloveitchick. Oiystzug Fun Der Rede 1943

mashiach and messiah[edit]

Capitalized or not? Editor2020 (talk) 04:47, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The least capitals you can use when discussing this subject the better, in my own view at least. Thanks for all the work you're doing here. warshy (¥¥) 19:54, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with warshy. Jayjg (talk) 23:03, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This article contains both the forms mashiach and moshiach. Should they be changed to one or the other or replaced with the word messiah? Editor2020 (talk) 02:58, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
When used in Wikipedia's voice, they should all be changed to "messiah" or "the messiah" (no italics or capitals), per MOS:FOREIGN/MOS:FOREIGNITALIC. When introducing the term to explain it, or in similar situations, it should be spelled moshiach, per Ashkenazi/Chabad Hebrew convention/pronunciation, and italicized, per MOS:FOREIGNITALIC. When quoting sources using the term, the spelling and italicization should exactly match the quotation. Jayjg (talk) 15:56, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:38, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Failed Verification?[edit]

I don't understand why these two sources "failed verification". I could verify them.

Newfield, Joseph (Spring–Summer 2021). "After The Death Of Chabad's Messiah". Harvard Divinity Bulletin.

"Twenty-six years after his death...the Rebbe's beat goes on". The Jerusalem Post. June 18, 2020.

They're WP:RS, they're related to the subject, and the Newfield article is an academic article and personal opinion heavily sourced to its own WP:RSs. They're both recent enough that they're not outdated. The Jerusalem post article says that the Messianic movement is on the "fringes."

What is the justification for the "failed verification" tag? --Nbauman (talk) 20:02, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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