Talk:Charles Lane (journalist)

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'Rediscovering Judaism'[edit]

Lane wrote an article in 1999 about 'Rediscovering Judaism':

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/1999/12/Rediscovering-Judaism.aspx

I think mentioning his Jewish faith in his biography therefore complies with the WP:BLP requirement that:

"Categories regarding religious beliefs or sexual orientation should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief or orientation in question, and the subject's beliefs or sexual orientation are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources".

Given his faith was the subject of an article published about him, it meets the requirement of being "relevant to their public life".

Given Beliefnet.com has a huge readership and professional management:

http://www.beliefnet.com/About-Us/Management.aspx

the article meets the requirement of being a "reliable published source".

And given Lane identified his religion as Jewish, it meets the requirement that "the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief ... in question"

The source is a primary one, but meets the requirements for using one:

primary

A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements that any educated person, with access to the source but without specialist knowledge, will be able to verify are supported by the source.

A description of his faith is a straightforward, descriptive statement, that any educated person, with access to the source and without specialist knowledge could verify is supported by the source.

If there are no objections, I'd like to include this in his biography, perhaps in a new 'Personal Life' section or a new infobox. --Cincinatis2 (talk) 08:28, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

He wrote a fairly brief article 12 years ago on a religion site about rediscovering Judaism. Given that he has had literally hundreds of thousands of his words published, why would one think this particular article would notable for his very brief biography? Do any reliable secondary sources comment about this? Jayjg (talk) 00:33, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
What categorizes it as "fairly brief"? It was a two page article, and the subject of the entire article was his being Jewish and rediscovering his faith. It was notable in that it's a published piece about some aspect of his life.
why would one think this particular article would notable for his very brief biography
His article has three sections, besides Notes and External Links, so I wouldn't describe it as very brief. Perhaps we could get a third person to weigh in? Biographical information like his Nationality (American) and Occupation (journalist) is already included, and I would like to add what he's Known For (The New Republic editor, Washington Post), his Religion (Judaism) and if possible, Age (~51). His nationality seems to be no more notable than his religion, and it's included, so I don't see mentioning his religion as out of place.
I haven't seen any reliable secondary sources comment on this. I could look for one though, if the general opinion is that this is too brief or not notable.
Since there are a few points where our subjective opinions differ, I would recommend asking if another party could provide their input. I'm OK with any Wikipedia editor/administrator with an established record doing so. --Cincinatis2 (talk) 12:37, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
His 12 year old article is 1,000 words, which is fairly long for an email, but fairly brief for an article. This biography is just over 400 words, which is even more brief. He's known for his professional career, because that's all reliable secondary sources ever seem to comment on, not his religion, about which no reliable secondary sources seem to comment. Jayjg (talk) 17:23, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
I commonly see articles that are much shorter than his, which is why it doesn't immediately strike me as brief, and many biographies on Wikipedia much shorter than Lane's which is why I don't agree that it's "very brief". Do you have any responses to my other specific questions, points, (for example my point that his nationality is not any more notable than his religion, yet included) and do you think we should get the input of another party? --Cincinatis2 (talk) 09:06, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
All biographies list nationality - see WP:OPENPARA. The fact that some biographies are shorter than this is not particularly relevant; I could as easily point out that it is very brief compared to E. H. Carr and Solomon Burke, which (as of today) are both over 220k. Regarding specific questions, a) Have you found any reliable secondary sources that comment on his religion, and b) Why are you using a new account? Jayjg (talk) 18:00, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Valid point on nationality.
The fact that some biographies are shorter than this is not particularly relevant
I commonly see biographies that are much shorter than Lane's. I think that's relevant. Perhaps we could get a third party to provide input on whether Lane's article could be described as 'very brief'.
Have you found any reliable secondary sources that comment on his religion
I want to establish whether it's necessary before spending time finding a secondary source.
Why are you using a new account?
I forgot my password for my old account. --Cincinatis2 (talk) 18:22, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
You want a third party to comment on a comment I made about whether or not this biography is "very brief" compared to a 220k biography? Those biographies are 4500 percent larger than this one. I get the impression you're not being serious. Please find reliable secondary sources that comment on Lane's religion, we'll start from there. If they don't exist, then this discussion is moot. Jayjg (talk) 18:28, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
No, I do not want a party to comment on whether this biography is "very brief" compared to a 220K biography, I want them to comment on whether it is very brief in general. A 220K word biography is not typical and can't be used as the standard for a normal biography. These seemingly simple points that you misinterpret is why I'd like a third party to provide their input. If there is a general agreement that the article is "very brief" and that the article about Lane's religion is not notable, I will look for a secondary source. --Cincinatis2 (talk) 23:01, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
I never said it was "very brief" in general though, only "very brief" in comparison to a 220k biography, so why would you want third party comment on that? I said it was "fairly brief" in general. "Fairly" and "very" have significantly different meanings. Jayjg (talk) 01:49, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
You said "very brief" in general. Look at your first comment on it:
why would one think this particular article would notable for his very brief biography
This is why I suggest a third party. We can't even get something as simple as this straight. --Cincinatis2 (talk) 06:06, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────You can do what you like, but I suggest a more useful way of spending your time would be to add actually notable information to the biography that has been mentioned in reliable secondary sources. Jayjg (talk) 20:53, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I would be happy to find more secondary sources if I can get any more requests from other administrators. In the meantime, I'll see if any experienced admins are willing to review this. --Cincinatis2 (talk) 05:18, 6 February 2012 (UTC)