Talk:Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor

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"Nonviolent measures"[edit]

The intro includes this line: "...continental Spain was spared from religious conflict largely by Charles' nonviolent measures."

Can we truly consider the Inquisition a nonviolent measure? 71.156.15.164 (talk) 18:51, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Ah, historical revisionism. Turning tyrants to saints. It never ends.

-G — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.154.124 (talk) 11:02, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Yeah that really has to be changed. I think the original writer meant non-military methods. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.227.117.203 (talk) 01:32, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

"Soybean pudding" spoof[edit]

Someone is propagating a joke article from Amazon. The book is real, but I doubt the reference actually says anything about "soybeans". Please check the review for the reference at: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Charles-Dynast-Defender-1500-58-History/dp/034053558X The "reviewer" states that "Charles V was very fond of soybean pudding". Also that "Charles V FOUGHT SUPERMAN". This is an obvious spoof and just because a reference is quoted doesn't make it in any way legitimate. Will someone who has access to a copy of the reference please verify whether there is or ISN'T content on soybean pudding???? Then kindly remove the item if it does not. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pmarshal (talkcontribs) 15:34, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

See Talk:Douhua for response 150.237.85.229 (talk) 17:38, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

This paragraph is VANDALISM and should be removed by someone qualified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.208.83.207 (talk) 20:53, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

There is a section in Talk:Douhua about this. People are reverting the information without basis. 86.148.235.107 (talk) 22:53, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Caption[edit]

The lead portrait caption is supposed to be informative. It is supposed to say who painted the portrait and when. It is painfully obvious that the subject of the lead portrait is Charles. He is also mentioned as Holy Roman Emperor and as King of Spain in the infobox, just below the caption. Therefore, the caption Karl V (Charles V), Holy Roman Emperor, also Don Carlos I, King of Spain adds nothing to the article or the infobox. Surtsicna (talk) 18:28, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Not really. No one is obliged to know why he is "Charles V" and also "Charles I". Explaining for the casual reader that he was Charles V in Germany and Charles I in Spain is the least we can do. And we have to explain it in the fastest and easiest way possible.
And no, captions do not exist to tell who took a photograph, or who painted something. You may add it, but there no reason to do it. Saying that a painting portrays the "Battle of XX where General YY defeated the YYs" is more important than saying "Oil on canvas by John Doe, made in 1870 in Italy". Unless, of course, if the article is bout the painter, photpgrapher, lithographer, etc... --Lecen (talk) 18:36, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
His regnal names and numerals are explained in the lead sentence. His titles are explained in both the lead sentence and in the infobox just below the caption. The caption is thus heavily redundant. The caption Karl V (Charles V), Holy Roman Emperor, also Don Carlos I, King of Spain is nothing like Battle of XX where General YY defeated the YYs. A caption such as that one would be (just an example): Portrait of Charles sent to the English court on the occassion of his betrothal to Princess Mary. Since the present caption adds nothing to the infobox or the article itself, the image would be better off with a different one or without one at all. Surtsicna (talk) 18:54, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
Hello, I arrived here from the WP:Third opinion noticeboard, and I have to say I agree with Surtsicna. The caption should draw attention to something not obvious from the picture, not just repeat stuff that's already in the article. See WP:Caption. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 19:04, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
I rather prefer "Karl V (Charles V), Holy Roman Emperor, also Don Carlos I, King of Spain" below the picture than "Charles by Titian". But that's my opinion and I won't start reverting others' edits to force my views. I leave that kind of behavior to other editors. If others in here prefer Surtsicna's taste, I'll accept it without complaints. --Lecen (talk) 19:14, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
If we know anything else about the portrait, maybe that would be good material for the caption. Otherwise I'd suggest something along the lines of Charles V, painted in X by Y. See for example Henry_VII_of_England. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 19:37, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
We are not dealing with tastes and preferences (or at least we shouldn't be). We're supposed to pick an informative caption, a caption that describes the image and/or tells the reader something that's not obvious and already mentioned several times. Surtsicna (talk) 19:40, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
There's an article at the Oxford Art Journal [1] (which I don't have access to) which might contain more information about this portrait. From the few minutes of research I just did, it seems to be one of the less famous portraits of Charles by Titian. Several others have wikipedia pages. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 19:52, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

About King of Hungary, of Dalmatia, and of Croatia nominal titles attached to Spanish Crown (not Bohemia). Testament of Charles V.[edit]

Because of testament of Charles V, like a deference to his widow sister Mary of Hungary, he let her to use this title on life. Then, because of her marriage with Louis II of Hungary without (legal) descendents, these titles laid nominaly on Philip II of Spain, and, from him, Spanish Crown holds the King of Hungary, of Bohemia, and of Croatia nominal titles.

http://www.fuenterrebollo.com/CarlosV/testamento.html

http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/bib/historia/CarlosV/7_4_testamento.shtml

Please, if someone wants, it would be needed to add a citesin referencing an english traslation of Charles V testament pointing out this.

Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeubea (talkcontribs) 19:52, 11 November 2013 (UTC)





Well, I have researched the orginal testament wrote by himself as it is documented in Simancas archive, and theses are their titles (is s. XVI Spanish),


En el nombre de Dios todo poderoso Padre, Hijo, Spíritu Santo, tres Personas, un solo Dios verdadero y de la gloriosa siempre Virgen y Madre suya Sana María, nuestra Señora, y de todos los Santos y Santas de la Corte Celestial. Nos don Carlos, por la divina clemencia Emperador de los Romanos, Augusto Rey de Alemaña, de Castilla, de León, de Aragón, de las dos Sicilias, de Hierusalém, de Ungría, de Dalmaçia, de Croaçia, de Navarra, de Granada, de Toledo, de Valençia, de Galicia, de Sevilla, de Mallorca, de Çerdeña, de Córdova, de Córcega, de Murçia, de Jaén, de los Algarbes, de Algezira, de Gibraltar, de las islas de Canaria, de las Indias, islas y Tierra Firme del Mar Océano, archiduque de Austria, duque de Borgoña, de Brabante, de Lothoringia, de Corintia, de Carniola, de Linburg, de Luçenburg, de Gueldres, de Athenas, de Neopatria, conde de Barcelona, de Flandes, de Tirol, de Auspurg, de Arthois y de Borgoña, palatino de Henao, de Olandia, de Zelandia, de Ferrete, de Friburg, de Hanurg, de Rosellón, de Hutfania, Langrave de Alsacia, marqués de Burgonia y del Sacro Romano Imperio, de Oristán y de Gociano, príncipe de Cataluña y de Suevie, señor de Frisia, de la Marcha Esclavonia, de Puerto Haon, de Vizcaya, de Molina, de Salinas, de Triplo y de Malinas, etc.


The original testament manuscript first page, in s.XVI Spanish: http://www.fundacionyuste.es/desarrollo/testamento/p1.PDF

A transcription of the same to readable text, in s. XVI spanish too : http://www.fuenterrebollo.com/CarlosV/testamento.html

So, finally titles King of Hungary, of Dalmatia, and of Croatia, were titles of Charles V, according to testament and so they have been held nominally by ruling Spanish Kings. No mention to King of Bohemia title.

Finally, Prince of Catalonia title was used until Real Decreto de 1833 (new provincial division) and from this date this title is not mentioned anymore.

I will update theses two corrections: to add King of Hungary, of Dalmatia, and of Croatia titles and re-add Prince of Catalonia and to dissociate the confussion King Hungary, of Dalmatia, and of Croatia / King Hungary, of Bohemia, and of Croatia titles.

Regards --Zeubea (talk) 01:06, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

The name of the Encyclopaedia Britannica is misspelled repeatedly in the footnotes. Ron Thompson (talk) 00:34, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

No King of Spain[edit]

That title is not right, since at that time did not exist any Kingdom of Spain. It could be as a colloquial way to call him, often used in Spain nowdays (but with strongly disagreement). The phrase "As Charles was the first king to rule Castile, León, and Aragon simultaneously in his own right, he became the first King of Spain." is not right.

The testament wrote by himself as it is documented in Simancas archive, clearly stated this fact and theses are their titles (is s. XVI Spanish),

"En el nombre de Dios todo poderoso Padre, Hijo, Spíritu Santo, tres Personas, un solo Dios verdadero y de la gloriosa siempre Virgen y Madre suya Sana María, nuestra Señora, y de todos los Santos y Santas de la Corte Celestial. Nos don Carlos, por la divina clemencia Emperador de los Romanos, Augusto Rey de Alemaña, de Castilla, de León, de Aragón, de las dos Sicilias, de Hierusalém, de Ungría, de Dalmaçia, de Croaçia, de Navarra, de Granada, de Toledo, de Valençia, de Galicia, de Sevilla, de Mallorca, de Çerdeña, de Córdova, de Córcega, de Murçia, de Jaén, de los Algarbes, de Algezira, de Gibraltar, de las islas de Canaria, de las Indias, islas y Tierra Firme del Mar Océano, archiduque de Austria, duque de Borgoña, de Brabante, de Lothoringia, de Corintia, de Carniola, de Linburg, de Luçenburg, de Gueldres, de Athenas, de Neopatria, conde de Barcelona, de Flandes, de Tirol, de Auspurg, de Arthois y de Borgoña, palatino de Henao, de Olandia, de Zelandia, de Ferrete, de Friburg, de Hanurg, de Rosellón, de Hutfania, Langrave de Alsacia, marqués de Burgonia y del Sacro Romano Imperio, de Oristán y de Gociano, príncipe de Cataluña y de Suevie, señor de Frisia, de la Marcha Esclavonia, de Puerto Haon, de Vizcaya, de Molina, de Salinas, de Triplo y de Malinas, etc.

The original testament manuscript first page, in s.XVI Spanish: http://www.fundacionyuste.es/desarrollo/testamento/p1.PDF

--LinBiao59 (talk) 20:02, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

I reverted your edits because there was a couple of problems: the titles should not be included in the Spanish transcriptions of his name in the lead and you inserted your signature in the article. I am not qualified to make a judgement regarding this particular issue, you are welcome to delete the claim of him being king of Spain again if you wish, I won't revert that (though I can't guarantee that someone else won't), but please do not insert your signature in the article text (~~~~), that is only for the talk pages. Thanks. --Saddhiyama (talk) 20:32, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Saddhiyama. Ive just realized my mistake and proceed to clean my signature when I read your correction. I appreciate any comment or help, even a discussion if you disagree with my corrections. I have no wish to get involved in an argument , but I think there is a lack of clarity in this issue mostly due to political differences in Spain. Thanks again.

--LinBiao59 (talk) 20:49, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Correct, there was no Spain back in those days. Spain only exists since the creation of the Spanish constitution. But Charles V was king of the today's spain. So it's according "modern" nationalistic receptions, writing about "kings of France", "kings of Austria", "kings of Spain", aso., only Italy is still called "holy roman empire" today (but the catholics neglect this and argue that the "holy roman empire" was just a title, *lol*, in fact it was the de facto ruling over hole Italy and the Vatican - which only used the tricky "please don't attack me, I will give you a title instead" - but it still took centurys until Napolean demonstrated who really is in charge by crowning himself, *lol*). By the way the only reason why Charles wasn't ruling over Austria/Hungary was because it was ruled by his brother Ferdinand I. Therefore the Habsburger basically ruled over most of Europe. Francis I was a lucky guy for his sympathy by the Habsburger. Charles also had very close ties with Portugal, and only the Portugese revolution many years later made it independent and therefore lead to the many wars over South American colonies between Spain and Portugal. So basically only the Germans and some Turks wanted to mess with Charles, and he crushed them. Lucky for England that Charles wasn't interested in England - or let's say he respected Henry VIII a lot more than this insane woman murderer would have deserved (or let's say the hole English society was insane, they were killing females like the muslims today!). However, the English-Spanish wars started only a generation later. And were a total disaster on both sides. Only the Spanish and English economy profited by the wars. Even centuries ago there were many war profiteers. Some things never change. --178.197.236.80 (talk) 21:32, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Good point. The title used, besides the whole list of titles described above, was King of the Spains, since he was ruling over different kingdoms and realities. That started to change with Philip V of Spain first and the Carlos III, who spread the ideology of a Spanish nation and imposed one official language, Castilian, identified to be "the Spanish language". The idea of a Spanish nation took a legal status in the 1812 Constitution of Cadiz, one that did not accept any identity but the (Castilian-)Spanish and took so much aback the Basques, who had their own nation, the Basque ("Biscaynes", "Cantabrians", etc.) and held a treaty of allegiance to the Crown of Castile in exchange for keeping their own legal and institutional arrangement.
The use of "King of Spain" and the likes should be corrected here and like contemporary articles, and if used for purposes of understanding, it should be noted immediately the correct contemporary title for the sake of accuracy, it may be misleading otherwise. Spain was an idea including the whole Iberia according to the concept of Roman Hispania, but included different institutional and cultural realities. Iñaki LL (talk) 06:45, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

The problem here is that a majority of Wikipedians are quite happy to call him King of Spain and could not care less if such a kingdom existed in his lifetime, but God forbid someone describes James I as King of Great Britain! Both men ruled distinct kingdoms but fancied themselves kings of a unified kingdom, using titles such as King of Spain and King of Great Britain. Anglophones, however, insist on being accurate and precise in one case, and "plain and simple" in the other. Guess which country's history gets butchered? Surtsicna (talk) 08:51, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Yeah... Agree. Anyway, I am not discovering the moon if I say that "plain and simple" is subject to accuracy, why not otherwise state that a dolphin is a fish? "More or less", keep it simple, right? Some people may not mind much whether a dolphin is a fish or not, but others may! The same goes here and for any encyclopaedic content, someone may find it very useful to state that "Spain is 500 or 1000 years old", but others may not, furthermore they may find it tendentious. The goal of the wikipedia is not to confirm an idea, but add reliable, accurate data that are informative on a specific subject so that the reader can judge by himself. Iñaki LL (talk) 09:24, 25 June 2014 (UTC)