|WikiProject Business / Accounting||(Rated Start-class)|
- 1 Clarification
- 2 Subject is chartered accountant, not chartered certified accountant
- 3 South African Chartered Accountant
- 4 Bodies issuing CA qualification in UK
- 5 Role of the Queen/Privy Council
- 6 Cultural references
- 7 Cleanup
- 8 Australia
- 9 Why only the mentioned bodies
- 10 India
- 11 Use of title in UK
- 12 Consolidation of Country info
- 13 Rewrite the introduction.
- 14 ICAI only creates number. Not professionals.
- 15 Certified Public Accountant vs. Chartered Accountant
OK let's try to clarify this. ACA (Chartered Accountants) and ACCA (Certified Accountants) are BOTH qualified and legally allowed to practice in the UK. However there is a difference between ACA and ACCA.
For many professions (eg lawyer, doctor etc) it is illegal for a person to offer their services unless they have been properly trained in the discipline. This is not so in the accountancy profession - anyone can set themselves up on in business and call themselves an accountant. They may have had no training at all and may be totally incompetent!
However, they cannot call themselves a Chartered Accountant... in the UK, only a fully trained, qualified and monitored member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales (ICAEW) or the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS) can call themselves Chartered. A member of the ICAEW has the designatory letters ACA (Associate) or FCA (Fellow), a member of ICAS has the letters CA or (I believe) FCA.
Choosing a Chartered Accountant as opposed to a "run-of-the-mill" accountant means that you are choosing a qualified person... would you choose to trust your health to an unqualified doctor???
- Are you suggesting that Chartered Certified Accountants, Chartered Management Accountants and Chartered Public Finance Accountants are "unqualified"? Psnae 05:16, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Subject is chartered accountant, not chartered certified accountant
The article has persistently been edited by an unregistered user using a changing IP address.
The user adds non-neutral POV statements concerning the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants to show that this is an equivalent or superior qualification.
There is a separate article concerning the other qualification. I do not believe it is appropriate to add material on it here, other than the single sentence within the article to add clarity and cross reference.
Whether the qualifications are equivalent or whether one or other is superior is a subjective matter that should have no place in Wikipedia.
THJames 22:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
South African Chartered Accountant
In South Africa, a person has to qualify as a chartered accountant in order to register as an auditor.
To perform accounting duties, an accountant (non-chartered) has to be registered with an approved accounting body such as SAICA (CA) or CIMA (CMA) or CPA (Certified Public Accountant).
Another interesting point - in South Africa, the best accounting designation is CA(SA), which is equivalent to the United States CPA.
However, there is also a CPA qualification in South Africa, which is inferior to CA. CPA's (formerly known as CFA's) mostly do accounting work for smaller Closed Corporations (which is a company that is not subject to a statutory audit).
CA's generally do audit work (they are the only accountants allowed to do an audit in South Africa) and more advanced accounting (compilation of financial statements) and taxation work.
220.127.116.11 10:20, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Bodies issuing CA qualification in UK
I have removed ACCA, CIMA, CIPFA and ACCA from the list of bodies that isue the "Chartered Accountant" title. Their members have similar titles but they are different ones.
THJames 20:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Role of the Queen/Privy Council
I have removed references to the Queen and Royal Charters as although they are issued in countries of which she is sovereign many Commonwealth countries such as Ireland (Republic of), India and Pakistan are republics and in some cases were already republics when their accountancy bodies were founded.
That the UK and Ireland are the only countries where the Chartered Accountant designation is issued is likely to be because they are the only countries where English is the main language, rather than because of the Queen.
THJames 20:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
There is a lot of information here that is off-topic, notably in the sections dealing with Canadian, South African and Indian CAs. And should there be any section for EU/EEA states which do not have the concept of a "chartered accountant"? Psnae 20:18, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
"By engaging a fellow, you will no doubt obtain professional advice which will allow you to resolve complex matters with extreme confidence, trust, honesty and integrity.
Ms Jackson's integrity is an asset to the organisation she belongs."
- It's not - so I removed it. Psnae 20:54, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Why only the mentioned bodies
I have heard the claim many times that members of only these bodies may call themselves chartered accountants but ACCA members may not. Can somebody explain here which body has laid down these rules and what authority they have? (Elephant53 17:21, 14 February 2007 (UTC))
- I suspect it comes from the relevant Royal Charters. ACCA members may call themselves "certified accountant" or "chartered certified accountant" but not "chartered accountant". Psnae 00:17, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe that is the case. I suspect it comes from pure snob value and only due to the ACCA charter being issued in the 1970s. I think this issue needs to be cleared up before this article is deemed acceptable. (Elephant53 21:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC))
- What do you "not believe is the case"? It's very clear that the term "Chartered Accountant" does not apply to ACCA. The ACCA rulebook itself does not use this term. Psnae 02:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but isn't this a matter of choice? The association has spent almost a century trying to break the old boys club of accountancy firms. Obviously prior to having a charter members could not call themselves chartered but post this haven't they attempted to build upon the perceived value of 'certified accountant' by retaining that within their name. Unfortunately snobbery still exists in the profession and many institute members (especially the older ones) try to look down upon the association. This perception tends to cloud the judgement of laymen. Therefore a think it important to note that by choice the association members are known as chartered certified. If indeed this is the case. (Elephant53 10:38, 27 February 2007 (UTC))
No, it's from the bye-laws in the Royal Charter: "Every member may denote his membership of the Association by the use of the professional designations Chartered Certified Accountant or Certified Accountant and/or the designatory letters FCCA in the case of Fellows and ACCA in the case of Members." That's the wording in the Charter. I don't see how you can argue that the ACCA "chose" to use a different designation. Even if you're right, and they did choose a different designation the consequence of that choice is that they aren't allowed to use the title "Chartered Accountant" AnthonyUK 10:22, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
In U.K. Chartered Accountant legally refers to a member of ACA. However, accountant who are chartered (ACA, ACCA, CIMA) all has the same legal entitlement and obligation. CIMA can also audit PLC. In other countries, Chartered accountant also means accountants who are chartered, therefore, we should clarify the difference by mentioning both usage. Vapour (talk) 09:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
And yes, this distinction is mainly due to snobbishness of ACA. Recently, a motion was put forward in ACA to merge ACA with CIMA. The project had endorsement from both the executive side of ACA and CIMA. However, the ACA members overwhelmingly voted no. It is true that Scottish ACA qualification is exceedingly difficult. But ICAEW and ACCA qualification aren't that different except that ICAEW make it much harder to become a student members to begin with. Vapour (talk) 09:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- "Overwhelmingly voted no"? Actually 65% of ICAEW members voted Yes, but this was just short of the two-thirds majority required. - Fayenatic (talk) 12:30, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Article regarding India being a republic and therefore doesn't have Royal Charter is doubtful. Because India was NOT a republic when The Chartered Accountants Act, 1949 was passed on 1st May. At that time the Acts in India had to be singed by Governor-General of India Chakravarthi Rajagopalachari, a representative of the King of England (UK). As much as Indian chartered accountant not being chartered by the King, the explanation given is incorrect. --18.104.22.168 (talk) 03:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
intimation letter to auditor
- For India? Try contacting the Indian institute via the link at the end of the article. This is an encyclopedia, not a professional referral service! - Fayenatic (talk) 21:02, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Use of title in UK
I have removed a recent uncited addition that In 1995 the Privy Council of the United Kingdom agreed that any accountancy body that had a royal charter could be granted the right to use chartered as part of the members’ designation. A consequence of this ruling is that members of the ACCA are fully entitled to call themselves Chartered Accountants, along with other members of CCAB bodies. The last sentence is incorrect WP:OR. The decision opened the way for other CCAB bodies to designate their members "Chartered [something] Accountants", but not "Chartered Accountants". - Fayenatic (talk) 15:29, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Consolidation of Country info
Given that this artcle is about Charetered Accountants and that each of the worldwide institutes has their own article, I would propse that we concolidate the list into a table such as the one below and i would keep the EU as a seperate article below this.
|Country||Institute||Limited Member Designation||Member Designation||Senior Member Designation|
|United Kingdom - England & Wales||Institute of Chartered Accountants in England & Wales (ICAEW)||ACA||FCA|
|UK - Scotland||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS)||CA|
|Republic of Ireland and UK - Northern Ireland||Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland, (ICAI)||ACA||FCA|
|Australia||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Australia (ICAA)||Affiliate Membership (no designation)||CA||FCA|
|New Zealand||New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA)||Associate Chartered Accountant ACA||CA||FCA|
|Canada||Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants (CICA). However, CICA membership must be held alongside membership of at least one CA institute (or ordre in French) of a Canadian province or territory. It is not possible to join the CICA directly. The Canadian CA is one of the few accounting designations that can be transferred to an American CPA via a reciprocity exam.||CA||FCA|
|India||Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI)||CA|
|Pakistan||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan (ICAP)||ACA||FCA|
|Bangladesh||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Bangladesh (ICAB)||ACA||FCA|
|Sri Lanka||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Sri Lanka (ICAI)||ACA||FCA|
|Nepal||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Nepal (ICAN)||CA||FCA|
|South Africa||South African Institute of Chartered Accountants (SAICA)||CA(SA)|
|Zimbabwe||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Zimbabwe (ICAZ)||CA|
|Nigeria||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Nigeria (ICAN)||CA||FCA|
|Namibia||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Namibia (ICAN)||CA|
|Bahamas||Bahamas Institute of Chartered Accountants (BICA)||CA|
|Barbados||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Barbados (ICAB)||CA|
|Jamaica||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Jamaica (ICAJ)||CA||FCA|
|Guyana||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Guyana (ICAG)||ACCA||FCCA|
|Ghana||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ghana(ICA(G))||CA|
|Sierra Leone||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Sierra Leone (ICASL)|
|Eastern Caribbean||Institute of Chartered Accountants of the Eastern Caribbean (ICAEC)||CA|
|Trinidad and Tobago||Institute of Chartered Accountants of Trinidad and Tobago (ICATT)||CA|
Rewrite the introduction.
By the end of the intruduction, I ought to have some idea of what exactly an accountant does. Lists of duties and institutions and historical information should be moved to the body of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 00:33, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
- That is what the link in the first line to accountant is for. Wikipedia should not repeat that in every article about different accountancy qualifications. Also, the second paragraph sums up the variety of work that chartered accountants do. - Fayenatic (talk) 08:24, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
ICAI only creates number. Not professionals.
There are certain typicalities about ICAI. CAs in India are predominantly from certain elite communities. ICAI is run in a way to benefit such communities. CAs are just not a well trained accountants in India. Therefore they fear professionals from rest of the world eating their opportunity and thus oppose permitting them practicing in India. The recent Sathyam scam has revealed the fact that CAs just are Convenient Accountants in India.
there is hardly any truth in this statement. it's grossly misleading. Indian CAs are from every part of the society and are trained beyond any comparisions. If you quote satyam there are many in every country. Its really ridiculous to judge CAs by such quotes. Ashutosh Lohani —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 09:21, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Certified Public Accountant vs. Chartered Accountant
"although most Chartered Accountants would say that CPA is a lower level of qualification, more similar to Certified Accountant (ACCA)" It seems as though there is some confusion revolving around Certified Practicing Accountants such as those regulated in Australia (which is a lower qualification) and the Certified Public Accountants regulated by the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants and licensed by the individual States.