Talk:Chełmno extermination camp
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Issues identified are: Verifying the authority of User:USHMMwestheim to appropriately sublicense content he placed here from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
- 1 ??
- 2 Driver?
- 3 Eichmann's purported comments
- 4 Chełmno extermination camp
- 5 The castle
- 6 Operation of the Camp: word "Plunder".
- 7 Please help me to move this article (December 2009)
- 8 Requested Move (September 2010)
- 9 Two or three survivors?
- 10 Requested move (March 2011)
- 11 File:Chelmno Gas Van.jpg Nominated for Deletion
- 12 Needs reorganization
- 13 SS-Unterscharfuehrer
hi im looking for advice for a project i have to pretend like im going to a concentration camp and have to pack a light bag containing what i think ill need in the camp!! help please
I don't think they had much to take from a Getto. It really depends on who's perspective? A Jew, a Gypsy...a Pole. A mother, a father, a child.... suggest you imagine yourself as a child and remember what was most important to you then. Devoid of race, religion. It's about the core, the immediate emotion of leaving everything..and having perhaps 2 minutes to collect those things that you love the most. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:17, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Eichmann's purported comments
The comments attributed to Adolf Eichmann need to be correctly sourced and referenced. Kingsbury 22:00, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Chełmno extermination camp
Such camp has never existed, the name was Kulmhof.
- This should be moved back - in English language histories, the name Chełmno is invariably used. In common usage, the camp complex at Auschwitz/Oświęcim settled on the German version of the name, the one at Chełmno/Kulmhof on the Polish. Is this inconsistent? Yes. But the page-naming policy is to use the most commonly-recognised term. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 10:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
- I've moved it back. The common name in English is "Chelmno extermination camp". English Wikipedia uses common English names. Jayjg (talk) 22:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Chelmno extermination camp has never existed. Even English language isn't able to create virtual objects. The article should include German name of the camp - it doesn't.Xx236 10:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
- There was a death camp, it is named after the nearby village, which has both German and Polish names. The name that is in common use in English for the death camp is the Polish one, Chełmno. That is what the article should have in its title, to conform with usage by historians. You are wrong that the article doesn't include the German name, it includes it in the very first sentence. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 12:27, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
The article doesn't inform what was the real German name of the camp. The staff was called SS Sonderkommando Kulmhof.Xx236 14:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
The problem is more complicated. I bet the Nazis haven't used the name "Vernichtungslager Kulmhof", it's a post-war German name. The same Auschwitz concentration camp informs that Auschwitz II (Birkenau) was "an extermination camp or Vernichtungslager".Xx236 10:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
deathcamps.org/occupation/chelmno.html writes "manor house". Xx236 07:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Any details of this castle?188.8.131.52 15:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Operation of the Camp: word "Plunder".
The first paragraph states: "....an administration section, barracks and storage for plundered goods;"
I would use "plundered" only if the the goods were stolen violently from the houses of the victims. As this storage probably was for goods stolen from the victims at arrival I think the word "stolen" would be better.
Your opinion is appreciated before I would like to change this. Pukkie 06:39, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Did Mr Burmeister ever tell where the burial site was. If it was done in vans then there must have been an awful lot of trips made to the woods - the trail must still exist. A good chance for forensic verification.184.108.40.206 12:20, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Please help me to move this article (December 2009)
Requested Move (September 2010)
Two or three survivors?
According to a number of sources, there were two known survivors of Chelmno: Mordechaï Podchlebnik and Simon Srebnik. In the article on Sara Roy, it says "Her father, Abraham, was one of the two known survivors of the Chelmno extermination camp". Then, in the article on Simon Srebnik, it says he "was one of three people to survive the Nazi German death camp of Chelmno". Were there two or three survivors, and was Sara Roy's father one of them? Shoplifter (talk) 05:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
- The Simon Srebnik article said 2 when I went to look at it. The reference in Sara Roy is to a book called Prophets Outcast; you can search inside at Amazon and the relevant pages are 344 ("my father, Abraham)-345("My father's name was recognized in Holocaust circles because he was one of two known survivors of the death camp at Chelmno"). From the credits of that book, I find that this was reprinted from Sara Roy, "Living with the Holocaust: The Journey of a Child of Holocaust Survivors", Journal of Palestine Studies (32):1, 2002]; it was given as a lecture previously. Roy, Sara (Fall 2002). "Living with the Holocaust: The Journey of a Child of Holocaust Survivors". Journal of Palestine Studies (Institute for Palestine Studies) (125). Retrieved 2008-12-28., reprinted in Shatz, Adam (2004). Prophets Outcast: a Century of Dissident Jewish Writing About Zionism and Israel. NationBooks. pp. 343–356. ISBN 9781560255093.
- I think this needs further investigation. I also can't explain why the Polish museum, Chelmno talks about Michał Podchlebnik rather than Mordechaï Podchlebnik, either. Do you know Sara Roy's father's full name? Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 10:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- Seems like someone has made the call that the three survivors were Mordechaï Podchlebnik, Simon Srebnik and Mordechaï Zurawski. This has been implemented in the relevant articles (not by me), but the article on Sara Roy still says her father was one of two survivors. And still, there is no sourcing for any of these claims. I've not been able to find the full name of Roy's father, but she does claim that he was one of the survivors herself, see . I think the best way to deal with this is to make a new section called "Survivors" and relay that the exact number is disputed, pointing to the disparate claims in works on the topic. Shoplifter (talk) 14:21, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- I think that's reasonable. The museum at the site would be the most authoritative source, I think, if there's info available from them. Perhaps asking for help on the Polish language version page would help. I did eventually figure out that Michał and Mordechaï are both versions of the same name. Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 19:18, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, I've tried to set the record straight according to the information available. I'm guessing that Lanzmann's Shoah is the source for the claim that there were two survivors; I've seen the film referenced in a number of sources. I can't explain Roy's assertion, obviously I don't think she's being untruthful. It might be some kind of name or translaton mishap. Shoplifter (talk) 15:38, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- It appears that Roy's father was "Avram Roj," documented under that name and listed in this article by the Holocaust Encyclopedia as one of the seven escapees from Chelmo. Avram is Hebrew for Abraham. Roj was probably changed to Roy after the war, or a variation in spelling. Perhaps he got "lost" in the later count as he, unlike the other three survivors, did not seem to have testified in any of the postwar trials of 1945 and the early 1960s. Her memoir and the encyclopedia provide two sources for his survival. Parkwells (talk) 15:11, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
Requested move (March 2011)
File:Chelmno Gas Van.jpg Nominated for Deletion
|An image used in this article, File:Chelmno Gas Van.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests August 2011
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"not to be confused with the camp's SS-Unterscharfuehrer..."