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- 1 Untitled
- 2 Merge Chera Kingdom with this??
- 3 WikiProject Dravidian civilizations
- 4 Edits on December 12, 2007
- 5 Removed POV Template
- 6 NonSense
- 7 Tamil Or Malayalam
- 8 Sangam Cheras are Tamils and not "Malayali"
- 9 IP edit warring with multiple editors including Sodabottle
- 10 The exports of CHERA
- 11 Malayalam is not spoken in Chera Dynasty
- 12 Wrong Information on Article
- 13 Yavanas of the coast
- 14 Keralolpathi - Panikkassery source
Should'nt the succeeding States of Cheras be Zamorins, Kochi and Travancore( prominent among rather multitude of States that were formed after the fall of the chera empire in the 12th Century).Although the hoysala and Vijaynagar kings had conquered parts of the earlier "Chera areas", the chera kingdom broke up into many small Feudal kingdoms( "nattu rajyam")activevoid 20:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Merge Chera Kingdom with this??
Looks like the articles are very similar (not completely identical)... The contemporary Chola kingdom is described in Chola dynasty, while the Chola Kingdom is about the epic kingdom in Mahabharata. I think Chera Kingdom should redirect here Sadalmelik 17:28, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
WikiProject Dravidian civilizations
Wiki Raja 09:10, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Edits on December 12, 2007
Can somebody review on edits happened on December 12. I felt there is serious flaws on the edits.
Sentences like "Evidence for extensive foreign trade from ancient times is available throughout the Malabar coast, from the Roman, Greek and Arabic coins unearthed from Kollam, Kodungallur, Eyyal (near Trissur) in Northern Kerala"
are changed to
"Evidence for extensive foreign trade from ancient times is available throughout Kongu Nadu, Coimbatore, Palani, Karur, Salem and Dharmapuri"
Removed POV Template
Removed POV template showing the kingdoms of Northern India as Empires, and kingdoms of Southern India as dynasties. No evidence as to whether all Northern kingdoms were Empires, while all Southern kingdoms were dynasties. Ashoka kingdom of Northern India is an Empire since it has controlled everything in South Asia outside its boundaries accept for Tamil Nadu, Kerala, and Sri Lanka. While the Cholas of Southern India is also an Empire stretching from South India to Sri Lanka, Maldives, Malaysia, Sumatra, and Java with its Navies. "Middle Kingdoms of India" template shows only bias towards Indo-Aryan kingdoms, and also making it seem that the Indian Union existed for thousands of years. Wiki Raja (talk) 06:54, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
"'Purananuru' refers to Udiyan Cheral, who probably ruled in the first century CE. It is said that he fed the rival armies during the war of Mahabharata. Imayavaramban Neduncheralathan, another Sangam age king claimed to have conquered up to the Himalayas and to have inscribed his emblem in the face of the mountains. Senguttuvan was another famous Chera, whose contemporary Gajabahu II of Lanka according to Mahavamsa visited the Chera country."
This is just a nonsense cause if Udiyan Cheral was known to have ruled first century CE he can not possibly serve food in the Mahabaratha time which happened or was written to be before Christ. --Challiyan (talk) 12:38, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Cheras and Pandyas both belong to the Villavar-Meenavar of Dravidian stock.During Mahabharatha times,around 1500 BC a prehistoric Pandya Kingdomdid exist and the flag of the kingdom was having Bow and arrow emblem. The king was kalled Saranga Dwajan meaning Bow flagged king. Similarly like the Malayaman flag of latter age Malayamantribe the another king from Pandya kingdom was called Malaya Dwaja(Hill Flagged king).Fish(Meen) Hill(Malai) and Bow and Arrow (Vil) seem to the ancient emblems of Villavar(Chera)MeenavarPandyan Kings. .The Dravidian kingdoms are many thousand years old though History is available only from the Sangha age ie since 500 BC.Another Utiyan Cheral could have lived during the Mahabharata period.Since the ancient Pandya Kingdom encompassed all the areas from Udupi(Gokarna) in Karnataka,Kerala and Tamil Nadu according to Mahabharata the Chera king was perhaps under the tutelage of Pandya king that time.Mahabharatha is a precious document of Indian history. Vilmeenkodi (talk) 18:58, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Tamil Or Malayalam
According to Eminent linguists like the great poet Ulloor, Malayalam has characteristics of an older language than "Paanti Tamizh". Tamizh meant language, and modern Tamil was referred to as "Paanti Tamizh". Malayalam was referred to as "Malanaattu Tamizh". Tulu was referred to as "Tulunaattu Tamizh". Kannada was referred to as "Karunaattu Tamizh".
Hermann Gundert referred to the ancient South Indian language as "Dramilam". So, how is Chera Dynasty "Tamil Dynasty"? Is not it Old Malayalam Dynasty? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Appu2000 (talk • contribs) 02:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Sangam Cheras are Tamils and not "Malayali"
There is difference between the two dynasties. They are in no way connected. This problem arises because in TN we know the diff. between Sangam, Medievel and later Cholas and Pandyas. In Kerala's history, no such long living dynasty existed.
The Kerala Varmas were in no way inferior. Remember Keralolpatti which says that the Cheras were from "paradesam" esp. east of Kerala-Malayalam which could be accessed only thro the Nerumangalam pass. I dony say that K has no history. I rather say that Kerala always was diff from "Tamilakam"..it is Koduntamizh mandalam as specified. Please read thurston K.Ulpatti,K.Vakshakramam and K.Mahatmyam for more insight. PS I am not the one the above post is referring to Konguboy (talk) 16:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
- All I am saying is that before you rewrite the entire article, discuss every section properly here. Axxn (talk) 17:18, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Sangam age Cheras were of course Tamils, Malayalam was not even born in the Sangam era. The connection between the Later and Sangam age Cheras is well authorized by historians. And finally, you cant just add Tamil racism here.
18:01, 26 April 2011 (UTC))
- I can see that the user Konguboy has been blocked multiple times earlier also for adding similar POV and ethnic hatred (Eg. here). So I am reverting his edits. If he blanks the sections again, I am going to ANI. Chandrakantha.Mannadiar (talk) 18:17, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
>>you cant just add Tamil racism here Again, i plead you to read K. Ulpatti, K. Vakshakramam and K. Mahatmyam with Edgar Thurstond section on Namputhiris. Sangunni Menon is not an archeologist while Nagaswami is. Also remember that Malayala and Kerala desams r distinct.
@ C. Mannadiar. I can also do the same. See ur talk page for example. Be academic. This is not a cat and mouse game. What I said is from K. Ulpatti itself and not some Tamil racial text.
- For people involved in this. User konguboy and other IPs are socks of the indef blocked sock master User:PONDHEEPANKAR. He uses a variety of socks and three ip ranges - 22.214.171.124/20, 126.96.36.199/20 and 188.8.131.52/20. Please ignore him and revert on sight. If you find any more accounts repeating this behaviour file an WP:SPI--Sodabottle (talk) 10:34, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
IP edit warring with multiple editors including Sodabottle
- Thanks for reverting him .This is the indef blocked sockmaster and pov pusher PONDHEEPANKAR. per WP:DENY dont talk to him, just revert without pause. This ip range was blocked for a week and it expired yesterday. So he is back to his old activities. Just revert him and ignore him.--Sodabottle (talk) 09:02, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
The exports of CHERA
It is known that early tamils(Chera)were massive warriors and creators of massive weapons.Damascus steel were actually found by the early tamils both in india and lanka and they were massively exported to western civilisation such as greece.Swords,tridents are the examples of weapons that were exported from tamillakam.Please include this information in this CHERA articles.--Tan Meifen (talk) 12:45, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Malayalam is not spoken in Chera Dynasty
Malayalam is not spoken even in second Chera Dynasty.The kingdom of Cheras comprised the modern state of Kerala,along with the Malabar Coast.The people of Kerala which constitute the ancient territories of the Cheras spoke the same language and had extensive interaction with the rest of Tamil Country.The Sanskrition of western Tamil country(Kerala)starts with a power in 9th and 10th century.Due to Sanskrit influence on their Tamil,their individual identity changed and new language(Malayalam)began to evolve and at 15th century Malayalam took its shape as current Malayalam language spoken by current people of Kerala.Even before the 11th century,the language is still considered a dialect of Tamil same as other dialects of Tamil spoken in Sri Lanka,Karnataka and Tamil country.The Cheras used only Tamil even in Second Cheras era where the important Kings such as Kulasekhara Varman is a Tamil Vaishnava saint(Alvar).The Cheras even doesnt have a Sanskrit version of origin like Cholas and Pandyans.They had a pure Tamil origin.Please remove Malayalam which is incorrectly stated as a language used by the Cheras.--Tan Meifen (talk) 07:00, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Wrong Information on Article
It seems that an important stimulus to state formation in southern India came from the Maurya empire in the north. It is quite possible that the Maurya army who reached the Mysore borders in their conquest southwards, encountered the megalith making tribes who lived in hill forts and controlled the surrounding countryside
I want to clearly mention that Chera dynasty is not the earliest or the first kingdon that was established in ancient South India.The Pandyans were the first of the Three Celestial(other being Chera and Chola)to be established even before 1000BCE followed by Chera formed before 500BCE and finally the Cholas which is established before 300BCE.The only North Indian kingdon that have recorded their knowledge on the existence of South Indian Kingdom was the Mauryas.(in terms of Magadha,established around 600BCE,but never mentioned anything about South Indian kingdom)The Mauryas itself is established in 321BCE(after Alexander's campaign of Sindh),so how can a kingdom\empire that does not exist during the formation of Southern kingdom can contribute for formation of these Southern Indian Kingdom?It is impossible to mention that the idea of state formation of Cheras came from the Mauryas.Another question is,if Chera kingdom is not formed why the Mauryas is not able to conquer the land of the Three Celestials.During the arrival of Maurya,even the Cholas state also had already formed and the inteligence and war abilities of Ilamcetcenni(early chola king) against Mauryas were recorded in ancient Tamil literature.As whole it is quite unpractical and it is impossible to conclude that the Chera/any southern kingdoms were formed because of the Mauryas.The sentences that delivered these ideas(above) in this article also is not in a mood that delivers fact but just assumption.Please remove these kind of sentences or unpractical assumptions.The Mauryas never had control on any parts of ancient Tamil land.
The southern kingdoms such as that of the Cheras would not have been developed without the rapid spread of iron technology.
I would like to know why the Dakshina Patha became so important while these Cheras just mentioned as tribe.I also like to stress that no tribe in this world or to a lesser extent India,can propel sea trade between Western civilisation.It is also noted that in maritime India the shores of Cheras(Malabar Coast)and the shores of Pandya and Cholas had the ultimate importance compared to other parts of India.The sentence above also tries to convey a wrong idea that the iron tecnology in south is from north.The Cheras have been importing weapons made of Damascus steel to western civilisation from a very early period,even before the Alexander came to Macedonia's throne.The iron and weapon technologied that were used by three celestials were their own and is indigenous to their region.--Vartharajulu Naidu (talk) 10:02, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
Yavanas of the coast
Mention is made of the victory of King Nedum Cheralatan who defeated the Yavanas (Greeks? Romans?) of the coast and captured the Yavana chief and paraded him in the Chera capital. Nedum Cheralathan is said to have lived in the 4th century AD. The Peutinger tables have a "temple of Augustus" near Muzuris, and it may have been a local big temple which was mis-identified as a temple of Augustus.
source: A survey of Kerala history by Prof: A Sreedhara Menon, 1996 edition, published by S. Viswanathan Printers and publishers.
Keralolpathi - Panikkassery source
Can anyone tell me more about the Keralolpathi source authored by Panikkassery? I know what the primary material is but:
- Who is the author? What are their credentials?
- Is it just a translation?
- Who are the publishers - I've never heard of them
I'm concerned that the thing may not count as a reliable source. Can we not find a modern academic history book that discusses the points that are supported by this source? - Sitush (talk) 06:18, 2 July 2014 (UTC)