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It is unclear whether or not (presumed not) 'Chan' is synonymous with 'Japanese Zen', and what differentiates the terms from just plain-ol' 'Zen', etc. It would be nice to clear up the distinction early in the article - for novices like me; who would rather not have to read the entire article along with all the associated articles to find out. ~Eric F 220.127.116.11 (talk) 16:25, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Japanese Zen is Chinese Chán imported to Japan and infused with Japanese culture. Chán developed from the 6th century onward. It's full-grown form was imported in Japan from the 13th century on. Zen is the Japanese name. The article on Zen is calles Zen because of the 'general' meaning of the term. Chinese Chán and Japanese Zen give specifics for these two countries. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 05:10, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank-you! (again). Sometimes these subjects can become a discombobulation. ~E 18.104.22.168 (talk) 16:06, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure I follow this. Indeed, I'm puzzled by why this article is titled "Chinese Ch'an" rather than the more common title of Ch'an Buddhism. WP is the first place that I've see it referred to in this way. Ch'an Buddhism--to my understanding--started in China several centuries before it was introduced into Japan and called Zen. But Zen developed a unique identify. Would it not be more accurate to say that Zen grew out of Ch'an than Japanese Zen is Chinese Ch'an. And why then, "Chinese Ch'an" when there is no other Ch'an, which omits the more important descriptor "Buddhism"? Sorry, great work here but this is baffling--22.214.171.124 (talk) 02:33, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
There's been a discussion on this topic, namely splitting the Zen-article into a main article on "Zen", and "separate articles (as necessary) devoted to the specifics of Chinese Chán, Japanese Zen, and other relevant additional information". That's why this article is called "Chinese Chán", to make a distinction with the general article on "Zen". Which is, indeed, the Japanese name, but has become, inthe west, the generic name for the whole Chán/Zen-tradition. Greetings, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
An image has a problem with fitting in its section, and (at least in my browser: Firefox, currennt), instead of displaying in the section intended, it drops down to the next section and partially overlaps text. My attempts at fixing were non-productive.
Section: Kasyappa and the Flower Sermon
Note: it looks fine in 'Show Preview', but not when saved. If there are no objections, I'll remove it in a day or two.done.126.96.36.199 (talk) 02:23, 22 October 2012 (UTC) ~Eric F 188.8.131.52 (talk) 23:36, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
There goes my nice picture... Anyway, he's still smiling at mu window-ledge :) Joshua Jonathan (talk) 05:36, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
My window-ledge, of course. What's in a typo... Joshua Jonathan (talk) 05:38, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
"Mu window-ledge" sounds more intriguing: mu : 無; : Pure human awareness, prior to experience or knowledge. This meaning is used especially by the Chan school. ~E 184.108.40.206 (talk) 01:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC) - Where can I get a mu window? ~E 220.127.116.11 (talk) 01:11, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
Right where you are it's already there. Close your eyes, place your hands on your head, realize that what you feel is a small part of concrete matter between your hands, and then realize that all that you're aware of, the hands, the hhad, and everything else, is somehow within that piece of concrete matter you're aware of. Now where's your head? Joshua Jonathan (talk) 05:15, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
" After the Song, Chan more or less fused with Pure Land Buddhism." (first paragraph).
This is a factoid that I've never seen reported anywhere else and is not sourced here. It seems implausible: the two systems--Pure Land being perhaps a Christian influenced version of Buddhism and Chan lying, by some measures, almost at the other end of the philosophical spectrum. Can we get more...or less...on this? --18.104.22.168 (talk) 17:05, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Hmm. A little more research on the web has shown that some people--predominantly Pure Land Buddhists--see some similarities between the two systems of ideas and practices, and apparently there were some teachers in China who combined the two practices. But I still haven't found any other suggestion that Pure Land subsumed Chan. --22.214.171.124 (talk) 19:27, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Pure Land is not Christian-influenced at all, it is an independent development that bears no resemblance to Christianity. By the Yuan and Ming, Chan in China and Pure Land Buddhism were being taught as a unified school. There are cites on the page. Incidentally I am trying to clean the page up because it's very messy. One sample cite from the article is Sharf, Robert H. (2002), On Pure Land Buddhism and Ch'an/Pure Land Syncretism in Mediaeval China, Leiden, Netherlands: Brill. BRILL is a top-notch respected academic publisher. Ogresssmash! 20:04, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Also, the article does not say that Pure Land subsumed Chan, but that they "more or less fused." That's kind of basic knowledge about Chinese Buddhism. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:26, 19 May 2015 (UTC)