Talk:China house church

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  (Redirected from Talk:Chinese house church)
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject China (Rated Start-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Christianity / China (Rated Start-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by Christianity in China work group (marked as Top-importance).
 

Should this page also be the main article for information on "the Chinese underground church(es)" or should we create a different article? Dpr 05:30, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • you seem to be the one most active on these articles. my inclination is that here would do fine, but go ahead and do either. SchmuckyTheCat 13:04, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Legitimacy?[edit]

Interesting article, but we can't expect eight paragraphs to be well-regarded if they rest on three sources, one of which is an obsolete URL for a Christian Outreadch organization. Are there other sources which will back up what is found here? I remember a BBC article about something similar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.26.39 (talk) 04:07, 7 September 2010 (UTC) . . . 3rd source also from a very Christian organization. SOMEBODY FIX THIS!

Why there is a Chinese house church movement[edit]

I note that, in this article, no reason is given for the existence of the Chinese house churches, which continue in spite of the threat of persecution. I would anticipate that there are significant doctrinal differences between the typical house church and the state-sponsered TSPM, CCC, and CCBC.

An editorial by William F. Buckley Jr. (Christians Afoot, Nov.25, 2005) states, "China is officially and aggressively atheist, and such Christianity as is vestigially permitted is doctrinally emasculated. (Christ did not rise from the dead; his mother was not a virgin.)" Such deviations as these from orthodox Christian doctrine could help to explain the persistence of the house church in China.

Inclusion of such differences between the "underground" church and the state-sponsered church would be helpful and informative, and would complete this article, rather than leave it begging the question.

Problem with unregistered/underground religious sects in China[edit]

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/202-three-grades-of-servants

Above article refers to couple house churches often cited by human rights groups - "The Three Grades", and their rival "The Eastern Light".

These unregistered/underground Christian sects were banned by the Chinese government because they were killing people in order to retain and compete for membership.

These "cult of Christianity", thou in name are Christian, do not even believe in the Bible. For example The Eastern Light believes Christ has returned to Earth - in the form of a invisible Chinese woman. The Three Grade's Leader, Xu Shuangfu, actually named himself as the Messiah reborn.

Bobby fletcher (talk) 22:34, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard of apologeticsindex.org so I question whether it is a reliable source, but anyone interested in writing about this may find these stories from the International Herald Tribune useful:
China executes leader of Christian sect and 11 followers
China's true bull market: cults
Readin (talk) 23:23, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
There is already an article on the Eastern Lightning movement.Brian0324 (talk) 15:08, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Readin, Apologetics Index is well-known in the anti-cult academia, and perhaps not so well outside of it (I have no association with it BTW):
http://www.google.com/search?q=apologeticsindex.org
I hope this will address the notability issue you have raised.
The reason I'm asking for feedback is because the wiki as is does not address this aspect of the reality of house church in China. It could be ideological, political, but it could also be ordinary law enforcement. Bobby fletcher (talk) 23:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Is There Justification for Calling House Churches Protestant?[edit]

If so, what is it? Just because a Christian movement does not recognize the pope, does not make it "Protestant."(EnochBethany (talk) 04:30, 12 August 2012 (UTC))

I think it's because they self-identify as Protestant. Homunculus (duihua) 04:32, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

+ POV tag 06/2014: removal of all information about the cultic nature of some "house churches" or "underground churches"[edit]

Chinese "house churches" are basically a concept invented by American Christian writers. This article has no right of existing as separate from the "Christianity in China" article. Most of the "underground churches" in China are part of a milieu of subversive and anti-social cults. The issue is discussed here.--79.17.79.245 (talk) 11:15, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

For further information, two sources that have been deliberately deleted by users with a Christian agenda:

  • Dr. G. Wright Doyle (2010). How Dangerous are Chinese House Churches. A review of "Redeemed by Fire: The Rise of Popular Christianity in Modern China", a book of Lian Xi. Yale University Press, 2010. ISBN 978.0-300-12339-5.
  • Robert Murray Thomas. Religion in Schools: Controversies Around the World. Praeger, 2006. ISBN 0275990613. p. 99, quote: «Protestantism expanded rapidly in China within the confines of the TSPM. But that movement accounted for only a portion of Chinese Protestants. Another portion was composed of believers outside the official body, members of sects not acceptable to the government—sects referred to as "house churches", because their covert meetings were usually held in members' homes. [...] The Shouters was one such groups [...] Over the last half of the twentieth century, a variety of Christian evangelical groups sprang up in China, much to the distress of the government. [...] illegal cults, which included not only the Shouters, but also Eastern Lightning, the Society of Disciples, [...] the Full Scope Church, the Spirit Sect, the New Testament Church, [...] the Lord God Sect, the Established King Church [...] and more. The Local Church is the official title of the group that became known as the Shouters because of the members' practice of stamping their feet and repeatedly yelling "O Lord Jesus" during religious services.»
I urge editors to reject any edits made by this anonymous user or at least treat them with a heavy dose of suspicion. Please see this thread in the talk page for Christianity in China for an in-depth analysis of this user's history of biased, politically-motivated edits which continually attempt to deny the legitimacy of the house churches in China and even directly contradict statements made by top-level TPSM officials. -Abishai 300 (talk) 21:21, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Your accusations are false, as exposed here, and the support you have gathered from other Christian apologists does not constitute a neutral Wikipedia consensus.--Etsop (talk) 11:15, 29 July 2014 (UTC)