|WikiProject Martial arts||(Rated Start-class)|
I've edited this to add more information on the meaning and origins and also noted that the clasped hands don't seem to appear on the current crest as displayed on the referenced websites. If someone would like to add some history on the development of the crest, wasn't there a single arm with closed fist at one time? Pkeets 00:21, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
In the section on Shihohai, a Sakamoto-sensei is mentioned as being the son-in-law of O-Sensei. This this someone whose name is O or Ō (for example, the Chinese name Wong 王, is pronounced as Ō in Japanese)? Or this just an honorific, referring to Chitose or someone else as "the great master" (御先生)? If the latter, it is inappropriate for a Wikipedia article, which is supposed to be written from an objective outsider point of view, not from the insider point of view of someone who both knows who "the great master" is without saying his name, and who would use honorifics to refer to him. It is in any case grammatically incorrect, as "great master" should be "go-sensei" not "o-sensei". If it is in fact a Chinese named Wong, please do change it to either Wong-sensei, Wang-sensei, or Ō-sensei, but not O-sensei. Thanks. LordAmeth (talk) 19:23, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Response: The specific text quoted was not mine in this case, however, the following explanation may clarify things for you... "O'Sensei" should probably be changed to read simply Chitose, especially if it is indeed placed in the context of an independent outsider that knows little of this (or other styles) or Japanese customs related to the martial arts. Of note, however, the term "O'Sensei" has long been used in traditional martial arts terminology to denote the founder of a martial art or style. Even practitioners from other styles will often use this term for founding masters as acknowledgement of their achievement and status. Thus, Moriteru Ueshiba is often referred to as O'Sensei Ueshiba, even outside Akido circles. I am surprised that anyone who feels confident enough in this subject matter to edit these pages would not be familiar with this term. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
I removed the following from the section about the crest. It seems like the kind of generic Eastern philosophy stuff that might have been made up by Americans in teaching karate, rather than deriving from the true principles of the original Okinawan art. If I am mistaken about this, and it comes directly from the true disciples of Chitose and not from something someone found in the Eastern Philosophy section at a strip mall Barnes & Noble, then I apologize.
Within that circle lie two hands clasping togother in opposition. Where one ends the other begins, continuously chasing each other year after year. The seasons are an example of contrasts; summer, winter, spring, and fall. Karate can also be seen to be like the seasons; hard and direct, soft and circular. It takes these two contrasting feelings to make a whole and, in the same way, karate requires a person to be hard and direct, soft and circular. Only when a student has mastered these two elements does he/she really know the Way of Karate.
That information is correct, if written a little "fluffy". As above regarding the use of the name "O-Sensei" (as generally opposed to "Waka-Sensei"), you really should not be editing it if you are not a student of Chito-ryu and knowledgeable about such things. This page is generally well-monitored by highly knowledgeable Yudansha and published karate historians. Rezdave (talk) 05:54, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
- Anyone can edit this article. "Knowledgeable about such things?" That doesn't matter. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Encyclopedic content must be verifiable. Wikipedia is not a repository for original research. I think you need to check out What Wikipedia is not. Even if you know and I know something to be true, the plural of anecdote is not data. I didn't remove anything from the article. Preferably, we should try to find a quote from a person or a book that describes the crest in that way, and the attribute the quote to the sources. Otherwise it is original research and does not belong in its current form on Wikipedia. Should be a trice for your "highly knowledgeable Yudansha and published karate historians", right? Iamlilyy (talk) 15:54, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I am amazed to see that someone who would purport to edit an encyclopedia state " "Knowledgeable about such things?" That doesn't matter". In point of fact, one of the few weaknesses in Wikipedia is that it allows people who know nothing about the subject to edit content provided by people who do. The contribution of subject matter expertise is critical to the viability of Wikipedia. While it is important that inputs be credible and follow a due process, qualitative judgement should be exercised by peer experts on the subject and not people whose expertise chiefly lies in the administration of documents, or in vaguely related subjects such as oriental culture or art. If this is allowed to persist, you will eventually find that those who truly are expert in this subject cease to contribute, which would be a tragedy for Wikipedia and us all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 20:46, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
"Full Contact" Category
I'm shocked to see Chito-ryu listed in the "Full Contact Karate" category. Dometrich Sensei's book mades it clear that O-Sensei was opposed to this sort of thing, at least without heavy body armor. I'll leave it there for a week or so and post a note to Chitonet, but it should probably be removed IMHO. Rezdave (talk) 05:54, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
"Okinawan Karate" Category
So I know why Chito-ryu is in the "Japanese Karate" category and is generally classified as such, since O-Sensei was living in Japan at the time he actually formalized and named it, and the Honbu is there. However, shouldn't it also be in the "Okinawan Karate" category owing to its strong Okinawan roots and lineage? It's basically Okinawan karate formalized by an Okinawan man that coincidentally happened to be living in Japan ... IMHO. Will cross-post to Chitonet. Rezdave (talk) 06:01, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, it can and should be in both. I added the page to the Okinawan karate category. — RB Ostrum. 23:32, 14 June 2011 (UTC)