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- 1 Wikiprojects update
- 2 Acetylcholine
- 3 Pharmaceutical uses
- 4 Reply to Pharmaceutical uses
- 5 Choline as an essential nutrient
- 6 New England Journal of Medicine "citation needed"
- 7 Invented By Whom?
- 8 bitartrate vs citrartate
- 9 Definition
- 10 Side Effects
- 11 Chemistry
- 12 Choline and cancer
- 13 suspected typo
- 14 Looks like spam to me...
- 15 Stomach issues and Phosphatidylcholine
- 16 % adequate intake - someone please add dont know how
- 17 "Groups at risk for deficiency" section
- 18 Choline salicylate
- 19 Introduction revision
- 20 References issue.
I have updated the information from the Chemicals and Molecular and Cellular Biology Wikiprojects above (although I am unable to access the full version of the paper online and marked that a full citation is needed). I have also removed a recent edit that cited the impermeability of Choline to the Blood-Brain barrier as it seemed at odds with the information from the NEJM (which suggests that choline supplements can have a direct effect on the brain) and did not cite its sources (perhaps OR?).SupernautRemix 14:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
The neurotransmitter acetylcholine is converted into choline and acetic acid by the enzyme acetylcholinesterase.
- Isn't choline converted into acetylcholine? Crusadeonilliteracy 13:14, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- Acetylcholine is built from its components within neurons, but once released into the synaptic cleft it is digested by the esterase so that the signal it is relaying is stopped quickly. Both (catabolic and anabolic) processes are happening continually.
- On a different topic: The chemical formula on this page isn't very helpful in discerning structure. In fact, it has confused the hell out of me. Anyone got a diagram?
- Here's a trick – type 'choline' into images.google.com. It gave me this right away. You've got three methyls and a C2H4OH all bound to N+. It's ionicly bound to X– where X can be OH or anything else that forms a negative ion. Anybody want to take a crack at a better diagram? David.Throop 00:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I notice a lot of health stores and online pharmacies are selling choline tablets. Perhaps someone with the requisite knowledge could add to this article an explanation of what it's used for. —Psychonaut 14:21, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Reply to Pharmaceutical uses
Using choline as a supplement is (by now) supported by some human studies, where choline deficiency associates with birth deffects. However, ther are not enough human studies to really demonstrate that choline supplementation could really solve this problem, nor if over-supplementation is clean of any side-effects (as it happens for instance with Vitamin A). User:Mdnic 15 May 2006
I'd heard that Choline mobilises fat deposits and this is why it is in health supplements. Haven't got a reference though...
- Choline is also used a lot as a 'smart drug', because of the central role that acetylcholine plays in a lot of cognitive systems. I've added a reference to this to the article, but my neuropsychology isn't too hot these days (never was to be honest) so I can't give as many details as this would merit. There's a lot of info out there if anyone is inclined to sift through it... User:SupernautRemix 188.8.131.52 15:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- "Eggs are rich in choline, which your body uses to produce the
neurotransmitter acetylcholine. Researchers at Boston University found that when healthy young adults were given the drug scopolamine, which blocks acetylcholine receptors in the brain, it significantly reduced their ability to remember word pairs. Low levels of acetylcholine are also associated with Alzheimer's disease, and some studies suggest that boosting dietary intake may slow age-related memory loss."
One wonders whether the upswing in Alzheimer's is due to all of those folks watching their cholesterol and avoiding too many eggs. 184.108.40.206 00:48, 1 June 2007 (UTC) Ian Ison
- Choline is also used in the treatment of liver disorders, elevated cholesterol levels, Alzheimer's disease, and bipolar depression. I've also heard that it is used as a supplement in treating hepatitis, glaucoma, atherosclerosis, asthma, eczema, alcoholism, etc. Healthycare (talk) 13:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Choline as an essential nutrient
To all authors on Choline,
I have just erased the introductory phrase. Choline is not essential for cardiovascular
function (if so, please send me the reference). Acetylcholine is essential for neuronal and neuro-muscular transmission of the impulse, but this is covered by another article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mdnic (talk • contribs) 23:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC).
New England Journal of Medicine "citation needed"
I searched PubMed for the New England Journal of Medicine article about choline (the one with citation needed), and I found a 1979 article titled "Choline and lecithin in the treatment of neurological disorders." It's so old that there's no full-text online. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=431620&ordinalpos=39&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
So, at this point, I can't confirm or deny that statement about choline possibly exacerbating depression. Derekawesome 19:58, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Invented By Whom?
bitartrate vs citrartate
- There's no such thing as citrartate. Where did you see that?
The text begins with Choline is an organic compound - is this correct? Or should the text begin with choline is an organic cation? From the article, it seems that choline forms organic salts when paired with an anion, but it's not a compound itself. Albmont (talk) 16:38, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Do you think if adding side effects of using choline will be appropriate for this page? For instance, the dietary choline intake might increase the risk of cancer of the colon and rectum. Anyone knows other side effects? Healthycare (talk) 13:41, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
"increase the risk of cancer of the colon and rectum". Are there any references?
Headache is mentioned here without references: http://examine.com/supplements/Choline/#howtotake
Do you think you can update the definition of choline as an amine with the following information: "The definition of an amine is a derivative of ammonia in which one, two or three hydrogen atoms have been replaced by an organic group. Amines have one (primary), two (secondary) or three (tertiary) organic groups connected to the nitrogen atom and contain a basic nitrogen atom with a lone electron pair.
Unlike the amines, quaternary ammonium cations contain a permanently, positively charged nitrogen atom (no lone electron pair remains). The nitrogen atom is connected to four organic groups and is no longer basic." --Ldcalvin (talk) 18:54, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
- Seems to me that info belongs in the links that are given in the phrase "quaternary saturated amine". How about editing those links if necessary?Puffysphere (talk) 17:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for your response. You are correct. I have clarification. The suggestion is to change it to "Choline is a quaternary saturated ammonium compound" as opposed to a quaternary saturated amine. I do have third party research - Kirk-Othmer Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology, Fourth Edition on Choline and Quaternary Ammonium Compounds. Does this make more sense now? Ldcalvin (talk) 15:29, 22 July 2010 (UTC) Ldcalvin
Choline and cancer
I took out an old comment that choline "might" increase risk of colorectal cancer. The 2nd reference does not really support this idea. The first reference is very old and doesn't seem to be online. The references that were given are still in the text of the article, commented out, if you want to look at them.
There has been recent research that shows no association between choline and colorectal cancer, cited in the article. I didn't find any research on Medline that shows such an association. However choline was connected to colon polyps. Puffysphere (talk) 14:16, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
IMHO 8 gm of soy lecithin (or 8 gm of anything) would have a hard time providing 250 gm (rather than mg ) of choline *please review for my sanity and that of others* thanks
- seems to have been fixed. Thanks for fixing my typos. I've been sick, I haven't been keeping track of this article. Puffysphere (talk) 17:46, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Looks like spam to me...
The last part of the article looks like blatant spam to me:
Long Term Memory Preservation and Memory Performances as a Result of Fetal Choline Consumption
"For more information on this topic, search for this review on www.pubmed.com: Caudill, MA. Pre- and postnatal health: evidence of increased choline needs.J Am Diet Assoc. 2010 Aug;110(8):1198-206." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 00:35, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Stomach issues and Phosphatidylcholine
Dial, E. J.; Zayat, M.; Lopez-Storey, M.; Tran, D.; Lichtenberger, L. (2008). "Oral Phosphatidylcholine Preserves the Gastrointestinal Mucosal Barrier During Lps-Induced Inflammation". Shock 30 (6): 729–733. doi:10.1097/SHK.0b013e318173e8d4. PMID 18496240. Although the article and sone source says that oral Phosphatidylcholine causes stomach issues, this study suggests otherwise. I don't have time to thoroughly check this, but perhaps someone else could?Testem (talk) 12:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
% adequate intake - someone please add dont know how
here are the percentages in correct order for women 111,2941176 26,58823529 44,70588235 35,29411765 40,70588235 7,058823529 27,29411765 41,64705882 26,58823529 47,52941176 33,41176471 25,41176471 28 31,76470588 4,470588235 12,70588235 18,11764706 17,41176471
here are the percentages in correct order for men 86 20,54545455 34,54545455 27,27272727 31,45454545 5,454545455 21,09090909 32,18181818 20,54545455 36,72727273 25,81818182 19,63636364 21,63636364 24,54545455 3,454545455 9,818181818 14 13,45454545 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Odarcan (talk • contribs) 03:09, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
"Groups at risk for deficiency" section
While this section might be beneficial support for the article, there is no explanation at all for why vegans, vegetarians, athletes, alcohol consumers, and those "who do not eat many whole eggs" would be at-risk groups for choline deficiency. It is particularly confusing for readers, considering that, right below that section, there is a long list of dozens of animal and plant sources of choline (and eggs are only one source).
In other words, the section comes across as misleading PR rather than an accurate description of the literature. Either this section should be re-written to explain why those groups are at risk, or perhaps it might be appropriate to remove the line entirely. Even the article that cites benefits of eggs does not claim that those who do not eat many whole eggs are at risk of choline deficiency.
Choline salicylate is redirected here, but there is no mention of the salicylate aspect. I looked it up as it is listed as the main ingredient of a mouth ulcer gel. Anyone know how choline salicylate differs? ˥ Ǝ Ʉ H Ɔ I Ɯ (talk) 03:36, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
Entire third paragraph needs rewrite or deletion. Benefits of choline are not perceived, they are known, hence it's essential status. The sentence "Despite the perceived benefits of choline, dietary recommendations have discouraged people from eating certain high-choline foods, such as eggs and fatty meats." is not directly from the study referenced, but a survey that the referenced study references that estimated the intakes, and an anecdotal quote. (Yikes right?) It mplies causation where there is none. Leading the reader. Non-scientific reasoning.
This is the meta reference:
Note the footnote (Partial support: the Egg Nutrition Center) There's a reason these things are hidden in layers.
Must quote the entire referenced paragraph and include it's references (see the above study's ref 26) if context is to be understood as they were not the conclusions of the referenced study:
"Because of increased risks of cancer and stroke associated with hormone replacement therapy, current recommendations for hormone replacement therapy in postmenopausal women suggest that treatment be limited to short periods to reduce menopausal symptoms (25). At the same time, dietary recommendations have discouraged women from consuming high-choline foods such as eggs and fatty meats, and the 2005 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey indicates that only 2% of postmenopausal women consume the recommended intake of this nutrient (26, 27). Thus, postmenopausal women, especially those with SNPs in genes that increase the dietary requirements for choline (11, 28), may be at increased risk of low choline–related liver or muscle dysfunction when their estrogen concentrations decline."
See also the referenced study's ref 27:
"choline is not currently in the food consumption survey databases used to produce nationally representative intake estimates."
It's best to quote the initial reference. Which is quite poor in both cases. It all feels very sloppy and pedestrian.
The References  contain senseless link "http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Choline&action=submit#" Where i can subscribe (talk) 01:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)