Talk:Cinnamon

Nomenclature and taxonomy

An is that ugh!! explanation of the English word is good, but why is that followed by terms in other Indian and South Asian languages but NOT INCLUDING either Tamil or Sinhalese? It is a Sri Lankan spice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephen G Graham (talk • contribs) 23:44, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

edible parts

Which parts of the plant are edible? The bark only? Leaves? Wood? ....

---

Is the "cinnamon" flavor in "red hot" candies derived from the traditional spice? [[User:CatherineMunro|Catherine\^talk]] 07:51, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yes. The issue is that most Americans have actually never used true "cinnamon" in the whole or powdered spice form which indeed smells and tastes like red hot candies. Instead they are used to cassia which is much milder and more popularly sold in grocery stores under the cinnamon name. Joshuaschroeder 06:29, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Not only the US - rogue traders everywhere do this (cassia is a lot cheaper). But the pic of cinnamon sticks is the real thing (compare Image:Cassia bark.jpg). - MPF 09:36, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

---

There are too many "it"s for my liking in the third paragraph. Does "Its flavour is due to an aromatic oil" refer to Sri Lanka cinnamon, or to all cinnamon? Isidore 18:16, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

There really is only one cinnamon. The other "cinnamons" are more properly refered to as cassia. Joshuaschroeder 06:29, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

scurvy and Culpeper

The text of the Culpeper reference is "Of these, Captain Winter's Cinnamon, being taken as ordinary spice, or half a dram taken in the morning in any convenient liquor, is an excellent remedy for the scurvy; the powder of it being snuffed up in the nose, cleanses the head of rheum gallantly."

He was referring to Drimys winteri or Winter's Bark. The mistaken reference to cinnamon is now all over the net, thanks to sites that copy Wikipedia content. -- WormRunner | Talk 00:01, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification! - MPF 09:36, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

the origin of cinnamon

"It was imported to Egypt from China as early as 2000 BC" does it mean that cinnamon is from china?

Possibly either poor knowledge of where the merchants were actually getting their sales products from, and/or confusion with other species of Cinnamomum such as Cassia - MPF 10:51, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I REALLY doubt the veracity of the above quote. 1. If cinnamon is native to India, why would a more distant Chinese source be the one that provided Egypt with its cinnamon? 2. China was non-existant at this time, and culturally "Chinese" people were not yet in Guangdong or other natural southerly oceanic trading zones, so how would you know it's from China? 3. The use of monsoon winds that allowed Indian ocean trade to exist as it did were not known at such an early period, so even an Indian or Sri Lankan source is dubious. So where's the beef? I don't see any reference to a source so much as claiming this occurrence. I suggest that this claim be removed until evidence is provided. D.E. Cottrell (talk) 06:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Reply to D.E. Cottrell

I strongly agree with your criticism of the quote, it simply does not make sense in the context of cinnamon, which is native to Sri Lanka. But I am not sure how you are so confident in your below mentioned claim “The use of monsoon winds that allowed Indian ocean trade to exist as it did were not known at such an early period, so even an Indian or Sri Lankan source is dubious.”.

Contrary to what some people might think civilization in the subcontinent is much older. It was the location of old civilizations such as the vast Indus Valley civilization which dates back 5000 years and perhaps thousand(s) of years earlier as indicated by recent marine archeological finds.

It is known that this civilization traded (maritime trade included) with ancient Iraq and other centers in the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea region since antiquity. Further it is also well known that there was more than one advanced maritime kingdom in the sub continent especially in the south. These kingdoms date back 2000/2700+ years or more, in terms of their sea faring exploratory ways and maritime trade activities.

Furthermore there is evidence that people from the sub continent reached as far as the Philippines in the early part of the 1st millennium BC and China by 700 BC (2700 years ago). Additionally there is linguistic evidence they reached even further to Korea (?and potentially Japan) at some point in antiquity.

It could be argued that these people were to some extent similar to the Vikings in terms of their maritime exploration (?and hence called the Vikings of the South/Asia). However they seem to have started their maritime activities 1000-2500 years before the real Vikings.

Considering all this it is inconceivable to me that they would not know about the seasonal (monsoon) wind patterns in their own back yard.

It is also interesting that the piece does not mention how the cinnamon got to Indonesia to be cultivated there and traded from there ~2000 years ago to Ethiopia, Egypt, Rome, Greece, etc.

stsraj 1/17/09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.146.25 (talk) 23:01, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Bias

"The best cinnamon comes from Sri Lanka" should be removed.^{The prior comment was added by 12.149.102.66 on Aug 09, 2006 at 12:51}

Thanks. You prefer cinnamon from Sumatra?

It appears to be the consensus of cooks, bakers, and gourmands that the best cinnamon comes from Sri Lanka. That would indicate that it's not bias, but unsupported opinion. Neither of the two are allowed, but bias needs to be removed, while an unsupported consensus is useful information that needs to supported and kept.

Noting that "The best cinnamon, commanding a premium price¹, comes from Sri Lanka", with the footnote linking to a price comparison, would work. ClairSamoht 20:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Molida - Type of Cinnamon or Spanish Translation?

I have an 18oz Instituional Pack of McCormick Cinnamon - label says "Ground Cinnamon / Canela Molida" - what is Canela Molida? Is it just a Spanish translation for Gound Cinnamon, or is it a distinct type of Cinnamon? - Of interest, since if its really cassia, its the stuff used in the diabetes study - (see http://www.spiceplace.com/mccormick_ground_cinnamon_spice.php and http://www.mccormick.com/productdetail.cfm?ID=6422 which sort of implies that the large size is cassia, but doesn't say explicitly). Might be worth mentioning somewhere in the text. 24.218.200.121 15:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC) Frank

Canela Molida literally translates as "worn-out cinnamon", according to http://babelfish.altavista.com. I suspect it means "ground" as that's the label on McCormick ground cinnamon. In any case, it's cassia. I can't imagine consuming enough ground cinnamon as cinnamon rolls and cinnamon toast to make a difference, but a couple of companies offer 800mg and 1000 mg capsules of cinnamon/cassia. I think I'm currently taking Rexall. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 18:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Healing with Cinnamon

The section Healing with Cinnamon is not written in a NPOV and should be either re-written or deleted. All medical claims should be backed up by references.

health claim

I cut the following

"About a half a teaspoon a day of cinnamon protects against the onset of cardiovasular disease and lowers blood sugar.[1]"

because the citation doesn't say that, and the article already has links to the cassia/diabetes study--Mongreilf 12:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I added that. You may be partially correct. But the point is this. A new study has just come out, just a day or so ago, about the effects of cinnamon -- not the old study about cassia. Please find this recent study, its source is in the article I linked, and post it up in words that are better. The point of Wikipedia is to help people. A brand new study on cinnamon will help people. The half teaspoon claim is from a doctor who does regular stories on FoxNews TV who discussed this new study on the air. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling 22:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

sure. put it all back with the citation the study itself, rather than the news article--Mongreilf 14:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Did they use real cinnamon in Khan's study or cassia? The term "cinnamon" appears to be used quite frequently for both plants, so how are we supposed to know if the article uses the term correctly or not? Eating teaspoons full of cassia each day could be unhealthy (because of the high coumarin level). And if they only cassia in their studies, eating spoonfuls of true cinnamon might be useless... --PsychoPiglet 18:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Cinnamon is also known by the names Sweet Wood, Cassia and Gui Zhi. The parts of this plant used medicinally are the dried inner bark of the shoots, and the oil distilled from the bark and leaves. Cinnamon is an ancient herbal medicine mentioned in Chinese texts as long ago as 4,000 years. Cinnamon was used in ancient Egypt for embalming. In ancient times, it was added to food to prevent spoiling. During the Bubonic Plague, sponges were soaked in cinnamon & cloves, and placed in sick rooms. Cinnamon was the most sought after spice during explorations of the 15th and 16th centuries. It has also been burned as an incense. The smell of Cinnamon is pleasant, stimulates the senses, yet calms the nerves. Its smell is reputed to attract customers to a place of business. Most Americans consider Cinnamon a simple flavoring, but in traditional Chinese medicine, it's one of the oldest remedies, prescribed for everything from diarrhea and chills to influenza and parasitic worms. Cinnamon comes from the bark of a small Southeast Asian evergreen tree, and is available as an oil, extract, or dried powder. It's closely related to Cassia (Cassia tora), and contains many of the same components, but the bark and oils from Cinnamon have a better flavor. Cinnamon has a broad range of historical uses in different cultures, including the treatment of diarrhea, rheumatism, and certain menstrual disorders. Traditionally, the bark was believed best for the torso, the twigs for the fingers and toes. Research has highlighted hypoglycemic properties, useful in diabetes. Cinnamon brandy is made by soaking crushed Cinnamon bark a "fortnight" in brandy. Chinese herbalists tell of older people, in their 70s and 80s, developing a cough accompanied by frequent spitting of whitish phlegm. A helpful remedy, they suggest, is chewing and swallowing a very small pinch of powdered cinnamon. This remedy can also help people with cold feet and hands, especially at night. Germany's Commission E approves Cinnamon for appetite loss and indigestion. The primary chemical constituents of this herb include cinnamaldehyde, gum, tannin, mannitol, coumarins, and essential oils (aldehydes, eugenol, pinene). Cinnamon is predominantly used as a carminative addition to herbal prescriptions. It is used in flatulent dyspepsia, dyspepsia with nausea, intestinal colic and digestive atony associated with cold & debilitated conditions. It relieves nausea and vomiting, and, because of its mild astringency, it is particularly useful in infantile diarrhea. The cinnamaldehyde component is hypotensive and spasmolytic, and increases peripheral blood flow. The essential oil of this herb is a potent antibacterial, anti-fungal, and uterine stimulant. The various terpenoids found in the volatile oil are believed to account for Cinnamon’s medicinal effects. Test tube studies also show that Cinnamon can augment the action of insulin. However, use of Cinnamon to improve the action of insulin in people with diabetes has yet to be proven in clinical trials. Topical applications of Cinnamon include use as a hair rinse for dark hair, and as a toothpaste flavoring to freshen breath. As a wash, it prevents and cures fungal infections such as athletes foot. It is also used in massage oils. You can also place Cinnamon in sachets to repel moths. Its prolonged use is known to beautify the skin and promote a rosy complexion. The common name Cinnamon encompasses many varieties, including Cinnamomum cassia and Cinnamomum saigonicum, which are used interchangeably with Cinnamomum zeylanicum.
Recent News: Cinnamon Spice Produces Healthier Blood November 24th 2003 - Cinnamon significantly reduces blood sugar levels in diabetics, a new study has found. The discovery was initially made by accident, by Richard Anderson at the US Department of Agriculture's Human Nutrition Research Center in Beltsville, Maryland. "We were looking at the effects of common foods on blood sugar," he told New Scientist. One was the American favorite, apple pie, which is usually spiced with cinnamon. "We expected it to be bad. But it helped," he says.

Sugars and starches in food are broken down into glucose, which then circulates in the blood. The hormone insulin makes cells take in the glucose, to be used for energy or made into fat. But people with Type 1 diabetes do not produce enough insulin. Those with Type 2 diabetes produce it, but have lost sensitivity to it. Even apparently healthy people, especially if they are overweight, sedentary or over 25, lose sensitivity to insulin. Having too much glucose in the blood can cause serious long-term damage to eyes, kidneys, nerves and other organs.

Molecular Mimic - The active ingredient in cinnamon turned out to be a water-soluble polyphenol compound called MHCP. In test tube experiments, MHCP mimics insulin, activates its receptor, and works synergistically with insulin in cells. To see if it would work in people, Alam Khan, who was a postdoctoral fellow in Anderson's lab, organized a study in Pakistan. Volunteers with Type 2 diabetes were given one, three or six grams of cinnamon powder a day, in capsules after meals. All responded within weeks, with blood sugar levels that were on average 20 per cent lower than a control group. Some even achieved normal blood sugar levels. Tellingly, blood sugar started creeping up again after the diabetics stopped taking cinnamon. The cinnamon has additional benefits. In the volunteers, it lowered blood levels of fats and "bad" cholesterol, which are also partly controlled by insulin. And in test tube experiments it neutralized free radicals, damaging chemicals which are elevated in diabetics.

Cinnamon Helps Type 2 Diabetes - Also Helps Cholesterol December 5th, 2003 - A spicy tip: Cinnamon can improve glucose and cholesterol levels in the blood. For people with type 2 diabetes, and those fighting high cholesterol, it's important information. Researchers have long speculated that foods, especially spices, could help treat diabetes. In lab studies, cinnamon, cloves, bay leaves, and turmeric have all shown promise in enhancing insulin's action, writes researcher Alam Khan, PhD, with the NWFP Agricultural University in Peshawar, Pakistan. His study appears in the December issue of Diabetes Care.

Botanicals such as cinnamon can improve glucose metabolism and the overall condition of individuals with diabetes - improving cholesterol metabolism, removing artery-damaging free radicals from the blood, and improving function of small blood vessels, he explains. Onions, garlic, Korean ginseng, and flaxseed have the same effect. In fact, studies with rabbits and rats show that fenugreek, curry, mustard seeds, and coriander have cholesterol-improving effects. But this is the first study to actually pin down the effects of cinnamon, writes Kahn. Studies have shown that cinnamon extracts can increase glucose metabolism, triggering insulin release - which also affects cholesterol metabolism. Researchers speculated that cinnamon might improve both cholesterol and glucose. And it did!

The 60 men and women in Khan's study had a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes for an average of 6 1-2 years but were not yet taking insulin. The participants in his study had been on anti-diabetic drugs that cause an increase in the release of insulin. Each took either wheat-flour placebo capsules or 500 milligram cinnamon capsules.

   * Group 1 took 1 gram (two capsules equaling about one-quarter of a teaspoon) for 20 days.
   * Group 2 took 3 grams (six capsules, equaling a little less than one teaspoon) for 20 days.
   * Group 3 took 6 grams (twelve capsules, equaling about one and three-quarters teaspoons) for 20 days

Blood samples were taken at each level of the study.

Cinnamon made a difference! Twenty days after the cinnamon was stopped, there were significant reductions in blood glucose levels in all three groups that took cinnamon, ranging from 18 to 29%. But these was one peculiar finding that researchers don't understand at this point. Only the group that consumed the lowest level of cinnamon continued with significantly improved glucose levels - group 1. The placebo groups didn't get any significant differences.

Taking more cinnamon seems to improve the blood levels of fats called triglycerides. All the patients had better triglyceride levels in their 40-day tests - between 23% to 30% reductions. Those taking the most cinnamon had the best levels. In groups taking cinnamon pills, blood cholesterol levels also went down, ranging from 13% to 26%; LDL cholesterol also known as "bad" cholesterol went down by 10% to 24% in only the 3- and 6-gram groups after 40 days. Effects on HDL ("good cholesterol") were minor.

Smoking

Why does my comment about smoking gets deleted?

Some youngs do smoke Cinnamon, Contrary to popular belief Cinnamon is dangerous for your lungs just as much as Cigarettes. --88.212.103.120 17:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

if u did some research u would know smoking anything except for plain water vapor, is bad for your your lungs it doesn't matter what herb you smoke Markthemac (talk) 00:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Toxicity?

However unreliable, I overheard an IV drug user asserting that intravenous injection of cinnamon will cause blindness. Can this be corroborated? __meco 20:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

First, why would someone inject cinnamon into their arm, wow desperate for a high. Second, as I stated below with the tablespoon comment, soooo not encyclopedic, not even a medical phenomenon. More like a natural selection phenomenon.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC (talk) 00:05, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Article on Tang references failure on an attempt by authorities to prevent methadone abuse by adulteration with Tang. Should we assume any logic in people who willingly inject non-prescription materials? Further, the relative toxicity of coumarin (both oral and injected, whether intramuscular or intravenous) is of interest here. Perhaps the CRC reference on relative toxicity of materials. See also section below entitled "Bad for you" 76.243.222.189 (talk) 03:03, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Judaism?

I'm curious to know why this entry is part of WikiProject Judaism. I'd appreciate your answer.

Dunno. I've removed it now. Only link I can think of is the spices that are smelled at the conclusion of the Shabbat. But any spice will do, not just cinnamon. JFW | T@lk 19:33, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Probably because of the Temple Incense which had cinnamon as an ingredient, or maybe because of the legend that cinnamon used to grow in the holyland so prevelantly that they fed it to goats, it is a spice forbidden to smell alone as the proper blessing is not known, and many say it is the smell of the world to come. Seaking of which, the article mentions the Hebrew is qinnâmôn. In fact qinnamon is Aramaic, not Hebrew. The modern Hebrew word for cinnamon is Kinnamon, but it is a loan from Rabbinical Aramaic and doesn't belong in the antiquities names section as the language was invented in the 19th century. 79.177.238.234 (talk) 13:32, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Inabilaty to eat a teaspoon?

Shouldn't something be in here about its inability to eat as a powder? Here is proof.

http://www.hallpass.com/media/haveyoutakenthecinnamonchallenge.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.92.155 (talk) 20:36, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

You can eat a teaspoon full of cinnamon, if you mix it with something else. I can recommend putting it in cereal, porridge and fruit salad, and there are many other uses that I haven't tried, yet. It's a pretty silly idea to eat a teaspoon of any dry powder by itself (especially powders that don't mix easily with water). I'm sure you wouldn't like putting a spoonful of cocoa into your mouth! --PsychoPiglet 17:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I actually used to eat a spoonful of cocoa plain when I made chocolate milk as a kid, it does not have the same effect at all. 174.68.77.17 (talk) 08:13, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Tons of videos on Youtube and Break.com etc. show people (often attractive young ladies) being convinced via peer pressure etc. to take the "Cinnamon Challenge". I guess due to its powdery state and the fact that it is a spice (i.e. reacts with/produces more saliva) it is "impossible"? Seems most people think they are succeeding, then they cough out a mouthful of dry powder, often complaining of some entering their lungs. Perhaps the wikipedia article should have a "do not try the Challenge" warning ;) 199.214.27.180 (talk) 17:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

We could also have a mention on the article for Drano stating not to drink a tablespoon of that either, but common sense states that this is unnecessary. Fools on Youtube.com downing teaspoons/tablespoons of cinnamon is not encyclopedic, it is just stupidity and has no place in an encyclopedia.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC (talk) 00:03, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I have just watched a video of a young man trying to eat a teaspoon of cinnamon and I might say it is a disturbing experience. It shows that it is not "impossible", but surely, it isn't pleasant at all. Healthycare (talk) 16:50, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

The best thing to mix cinnamon with, if you are taking it for ANY health reason, is honey. Honey is even safe for Diabetics if taken in small doses and has some wonderful health benefits all by itself itself. If you can not tolerate the paste it makes, mix it in a few ounces of water. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GoddessDi (talk • contribs) 17:44, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Replace NPR link

The NPR audio link for "Christmas cookies" is nice but not very specific and several layers removed from the original info. The following link is much closer to the source and includes more details. I'd recommend using it instead or additionally. It's from an official German Federal Government agency and should thus be o.k. for quoting. It is in English. If s.o. could please put it in??? Thanks. http://www.bfr.bund.de/cm/245/consumers_who_eat_a_lot_of_cinnamon_currently_have_an_overly_high_exposure_to_coumarin.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.56.30.124 (talk) 09:05, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

The linked article is only concerned about the toxicity of cassia cinnamon. --PsychoPiglet (talk) 13:07, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Cassia/Cinnamon in the US

I finally tracked down some true cinnamon at a hispanic grocer, and boy is it different... this is after 5 false starts with people (including hispanic grocers) who said that had "canela" that was actually cassia.

Anyway, this page states that C. aromaticum (Cassia) is used universally as "cinnamon" in the US, and that Cassia is the only one that makes thick-barked quills (while true cinnamon is the only one that makes thin-barked quills). But then the C. Burmannii page states that it is the cheapest ground substitute for cinnammon, and used commonly in the US - while also stating that it will form quills. Based purely on wikipedia entries, I suspect someone is describing Cassia (aromaticum) in the Burmannii page, but I'm not an expert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lesqual (talk • contribs) 05:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I think I once put these links in but they got removed as commercial...well, one is still there on the C. Burmannii page... anyway the main name-brand retail spice company in the US claims they sell Cassia as "ground cinnamon", whereas Frontier, a leading supplier to co-ops and natural food stores, sells a variety of types but what they label as just plain ground cinnamon is listed as C. Burmannii, and they label Cassia as "Chinese cinnamon". If you want to try all of them and compare, Frontier seems like a good place to order from. One inconsistency on the Frontier page: They list Korintje as being Cassia on this side bar, but if you click on the individual product links, they list it as C. Burmannii. I assume the sidebar is a mistake--maybe I'll send them a note and see if they know which is right.

One other tidbit as far as figuring out what is most common in the US: Penzeys (a "gormet" spice supplier) lists Korintje (C. B.) as "the cinnamon we [Americans] all remember from our childhood". Perhaps suppliers such as McCormick have switched from C. B. to Cassia.Ccrrccrr (talk) 20:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

djlsflaNCX o;aih onlhwdlh o;ij;laiwdo 'p"{ qeA [;E;JASF ;IHAOSURFOUHSD LPDARPKO afhlkufohosuhdf lhelfhos HF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.104.202.86 (talk) 19:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

C. verum vs. C. zeylanicum

I changed C. zeylanicum to C. verum in the taxobox because that seems to be the standard/preferred name in this and linking articles. I don't assert that one is superior botanically, just that we need consistency. ENeville (talk) 15:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

So where can you buy the bloody stuff?

I'm trying to find where in Australia you can buy Ceylon cinnamon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.17.33 (talk) 10:28, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Where to buy? is a good question, the markets are flooded with Cassia... Leave a message on my talk page if you want to know more about where you can get it.. NëŧΜǒńğer^{Peace Talks} 06:08, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Conflicting Information

Both this page and the one detailing myrrh state that the Emperor Nero burned over a year's worth of (either) incense at the funeral of his wife. While very possible, the way the two sentences are worded (almost exactly the same, neither one mentioning the other incense) leads me to believe that only one of the substances was in fact used. This is purely conjecture but I thought it worth taking a look at. When I get time I'll locate some sources to clarify things. - TulliTZT 1:17pm 30 January 2009 (EST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TulliTZT (talk • contribs)

Bad for you?

The two instances of the phrase "bad for you" look like vandalism (by the anonymous gibberish nonsense adder above?) - but what about the reference to coumarin - injurious dosage is specified where? [Just noted here to flag possible uncaught vandalism on the article page] 76.243.222.189 (talk) 02:45, 11 February 2009 (UTC) - ClueBot auto-reverted "Bad for you" edits per probable cause, asking about false positive, on article page, but we still don't have numerical dosage limit for injury from coumarin... 76.243.222.189 (talk) 02:54, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Coumarin (note: not Coumadin) cites a teaspoon of coumarin-containing cinnamon as around the tolerable daily ingestion dosage for small humans. Also, the National Cancer Institute, citing liver toxicity, led to a ban on coumarin-containg foodstuffs... so how is coumarin-containing cinnamon being imported? 76.243.222.189 (talk) 16:56, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

see also Toxicity, above. 76.243.222.189 (talk) 16:59, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Moving content around

I moved the stuff on names in different languages to the nomenclature section. It's actually kind of weird to have that in there at all--we don't have a section in each article listing names in other languages. But I guess it's kind of useful for trying to understand cuisine from different regions, so I didn't delete it.

Then I considered that lead vs. the rest of the article. The lead was mostly about the plant, and about the chemistry of the flavor. This didn't reflect the whole of the article so I moved the stuff about the plant to a new "the plant" section, and the stuff about the flavor to the uses section, and then re-wrote the lead to make something that I hope is more reflective of the whole.

--Ccrrccrr (talk) 01:21, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Cassia Cinnamon versus Cassia

Cassia Cinnamon is a Cinnamon. Please see the genus name. Cassia usually means something other than Cassia Cinnamon. Please see [[Cassia_(legume)]. Aside from the Wikipedia entries, I have never seen "Cassia" standing alone to refer to Cassia Cinnamon. Eshouthe (talk) 18:14, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

American Diabetes Association

The study that is referenced for the claim "Cinnamon has been reported to have remarkable pharmacological effects in the treatment of Type 2 diabetes mellitus and insulin resistance [...]" is from a journal associated with the American Diabetes Association. The study was done in 2003. In 2007 the ADA claims that "Cinnamon Has No Benefit for People With Diabetes" (http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-research/summaries/baker-cinnamon-has-no-benefit-for-people-with-diabetes.jsp). Shouldn't the previous claim be removed or at least amended? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.63.76 (talk) 12:52, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Sourcing

I just deleted some material in some possibly bold edits; there were two sentences that seemed to have problems with weasel words and were sourced on websites that seemed to be promoting products and did not come close to meeting WP:RS. I also removed the link to the "cinnamon challenge" website...I'd rather find a reliable source discussing the issue of trying to eat cinnamon and having it dry your mouth...instead of linking to a site like that. Please discuss here if there is any issue with these edits! =) Cazort (talk) 01:59, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Toothache

I know that cinnamon has been used since times immemorial both as spice and a herbal remedy. While it contains a number of active ingredients to help relieve toothache, I had not a really great experience in treating my tooth ache. Maybe I've done it wrong, but everything was done according to instructions and well, I had a mixture of honey and cinnamon with little or no effect at all. Who knows, maybe my preparation instructions were wrong or something. Anyone has a better experience with this kind of cinnamon use? Healthycare (talk) 16:44, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Cinnamon vs Cassia section unorganised

I found the Cinnamon versus Cassia plus other types of Cinnamon section a bit unorganised and overwhelming.Im wishing to edit it to make it more streamlined.Does anyone have any objections with this?Severina123 (talk) 21:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Split

The article should be split into one about the tree and one about the spice. The current article a mixture of both.Smallman12q (talk) 01:50, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree. I also think that the information about cassia and similar spices should be split out. Perhaps we can have one article about Ceylon Cinnamon, which can cover both the spice and the plant, and one about Cinnamon, which can be more general and can cover uses of all spices commonly referred to as cinnamon. I think this is a better split considering the content. ~~Andrew Keenan Richardson~~ 21:36, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I presume one of the articles would be called Cinnamomum verum not C. zeylanicum as indicated in the split suggestion template? 78.151.254.107 (talk) 15:55, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Unsure: I'm generally inclined to leave articles concerning a plant and its uses together, especially when splitting would create a stub. Here, though, there seems to be some confusion over what can actually be called cinnamon, with the article seemingly fending off several closely related species. If the name 'cinnamon' can actually be applied to any of these species, then I would agree with a split. I'd second the IP user above, however, that it should be to C. verum rather than C. zeylanicum. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 16:07, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

What species are cinnamon?

The article at present goes to some pains to define cinnamon as only Cinnamomum verum, although it acknowledges that other species of Cinnamomum are often sold as cinnamon. The narrow definition would therefore seem to go against common usage (according to WP:COMMONNAME, "Common usage in reliable sources is preferred to technically correct but rarer forms"). The US FDA accepts three species as cinnamon [2]. In the UK, I can't find regulations, but the Spices and Seasonings Association (a trade body) lists four species under cinnamon [3]. I believe that we should make this article (cinnamon) reflect this broader sense, while splitting content on C. verum out to its own page, where it could be described as "true cinnamon, Ceylon cinnamon, or Sri-lanka cinnamon". Thomas Kluyver (talk) 21:05, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree with your observation that the definition of cinnamon should be more inclusive. It would be most appropriate to associate it with the genus rather than species or all members of the genus which are used in ways typical for 'cinnamon'. Typical uses of cinnamon would be culinarily or aromatically (as scent). Describing C. verum as "the true cinnamon" would still be misleading because it would exclude other cinnamons from being validly called cinnamon. Suitable adjectives for it may be "prototypical" or "canonical" cinnamon to indicate that from the perspective of those who chose the name "C. verum" it is the reference or baseline.

Wikipedia indicates culinary or aroma use for following species.

• Cinnamomum camphora
• Cinnamomum burmannii
• C. tamala (Malabathrum)
• Cinnamomum parthenoxylon
• Cinnamomum oliveri
• Cinnamomum loureiroi

I advocate associating "Cinnamon" with the genus. Maybe after we would determine a species as being unsuitable for all uses associated with "cinnamon" we would then reduce scope of the included species by employing a white list or black list. A black list would be more maintainable and we could be more confident of its accuracy. There is no species indicated in Wikipedia as being unsuitable for both culinary and aroma use.

Likewise, we also need to fix articles which refer to cassia cinnamon as "cassia". Interpreting "cassia" independently without qualification, as in "cassia cinnamon" is an atypical interpretation of "cassia". Eshouthe (talk) 09:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree that this should be split. I think C. verum, C. burmannii and C. aromaticum should all get their own articles, which should detail growth, cultivation, and botanical history, as well as any uses which are specific to that plant. Cinnamomum can remain associated with the genus, and Cinnamon should be reserved for the spice, including all of the above. This way we'll be able to discuss cinnamon from a culinary and aromatic perspective there, plus an overview of the cinnamon trade and its history, which will include historical differences between the plants.

Eshouthe, I don't think Cinnamon should redirect to the genus, because there's a lot of overlapping content in the various Cinnamomum articles that should be collected in an article about the spice, and the genus contains a lot of plants which aren't used as a spice. I agree that the use of "cinnamon" and "cassia" is confusing; "cassia" should probably be restricted to the C. cassia article. I'm not sure if cassia should point to the DAB or the plant.

is there is consensus that C. verum should get its own article?~~Andrew Keenan Richardson~~ 16:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Cassia should definitely remain pointing to it's current disambiguation page, IMHO. Give consensus a couple of days--I've notified a handful of users who've commented above on the definition of cinnamon. Obviously (from the article) someone was quite convinced that cinnamon should only refer to C. verum, so I wouldn't want to start re-organising things too hastily, only to trigger a row. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 18:30, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I rescind my statement about interpretation of "cassia". I found a few old texts at Project Guterberg which list definitions of "cassia" where 1 of the definitions is Cinnamomum Cassia. It would be stronger evidence to additionally find some old recipes where "cassia" was used unqualified but clear from context.

1 text (Encyclopaedia Brittanica 11th edition, 1911, I think) stated that C. verum was prefered in England but C. Cassia in southern nations. Some text with short references exhibited 'cinnamon snobbery' about the superiority of C. verum aka C. zeylanicum . I have tried the 2 side by side and prefer C. Cassia. C. zeylanicum tastes more like saw dust to me (I exagerate, but still...).  ;-) Eshouthe (talk) 20:17, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the split into a main article about all the spices, under this title (Cinnamon), and a separate article C. verum. But what would we call the C. verum article? Cimnnamon (Cinnamomum verum)? or just Cinnamomum verum? I'm inclined towards (Cinnamomum verum). Ccrrccrr (talk) 21:09, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I'd go with just Cinnamomum verum. On Wikipedia:Naming conventions (flora), it says: "Note that it is often possible to distinguish between plant taxon and plant product... When a decision is made to treat them separately, the taxon article should use the scientific name.". WP:PLANTS also favours the use of scientific names. For a roughly analogous case, see Coffea arabica. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 21:40, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I have prepared a stub as a basis for the cinnamon article. It is structured to use quotes for verifiability and discussion. Eshouthe (talk) 12:32, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think we need a new article for cinnamon--the existing article is largely about the spice (history, cultivation, species, uses...), so we'll just split out the C. verum bits onto a separate page, tweak the bits about other species to fit the broader definition, and we've got a (non-stub) article already. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 14:00, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I would not say that a new basis for the article is necessary. I anticipate that it will be more reliable to maintain high quality and verifiability by managing what content enters a new article than to audit and prune the existing article. Better oversight of the new article may mean less overhead work due to better overview. Practically, I have doubt that the necessary work will be done to have thoroughly high verifiability without a new article basis. Eshouthe (talk) 14:59, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I think it's better to start with a rich article that's not fully verified, and verify/prune it, than to wipe the slate clean and try to build a verified article from scratch. If either task weren't completed, I'd rather have an article with more content, even if it's not all rock solid. Removing a whole lot of relevant content without attempting to verify it is a bad idea, especially since the existing article has quite a few references. Also, don't forget that you shouldn't manage an article too closely; even if you started it, it's not yours. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 15:43, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

But it is mine and yours and everybody's who contributes to it. It is a collective work. Where you got the idea to phrase this as personal to me, I have no idea, but it is unsuitable. Eshouthe (talk) 16:15, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, perhaps I misread your intentions—the idea of "managing what content enters a new article" sounded a bit protective. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 16:46, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Since there seems to be consensus that cinnamon should be more broadly defined than just C. verum, I've been bold and made the split. We can, I hope, work from here. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 18:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Health claims

Looking at the section about health, there appears to be a mixture of reliably sourced information and more questionable claims (e.g. using henriettesherbal.com as a source). I'd like to go through and rework it, which will probably involve removing some of the material without citations, or with unreliable sources, as well as rewording some of the more jargon-packed sentences. I'll give it a few days in case anyone wants to discuss it, or feels that they're better qualified to undertake the task. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 23:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

alzheimers research

CEppt, an extract of cinnamon bark, seems treat a mouse model of Alzheimers disease says Orally Administrated Cinnamon Extract Reduces β-Amyloid Oligomerization and Corrects Cognitive Impairment in Alzheimer's Disease Animal Models. Added ref under Research - Rod57 (talk) 08:57, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Unknown to europeans?

I'd highly like to see a citation for the statement 'its origin was a mystery to Europeans until the sixteenth century'. I was unable to find anything supporting this via a cursory google search. It would surprise me that, with all of the other imports from east asia, that such a relatively common commodity as cinnamon wouldn't have its origins known. I'm deleting this part for now, at least until its author can come back with a citation supporting the claim. 131.107.0.81 (talk) 04:22, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

A lot of medieval cooking uses cinnamon. The only citations I can find just by opening a book are 'Middelaldermad - Kulturhistorie, kilder og 99 opskrifter' by Bi Skaarup, 2000, ISBN-13 978-87-00-48716-1 and 'Mad og øl i Danmarks middelalder', 1978, Erik Kjersgaard, ISBN 87-480-0082-5. Both are in Danish but clearly describe how spice such as cinnamon is used, at least in the 13th century. However, I'm sure "Adamson, Melitta Weiss" (2004) Food in Medieval Times ISBN 0-313-32147-7 also has a lot of details about spices 90.185.194.71 (talk) 19:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I read somewhere that the ancient Romans had samples of silk cloth but didnt know the exact origins of silk other than it came from traders from Rome's eastern borders. Could this be the case for cinnamon? Henry123ifa (talk) 07:27, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Canella map

The FAO statistics] shown in the map at right are called Cinnamon (Canella]) output in 2005. It is very unclear whether this is wild cinnamon, Canella, or a different spelling of cannella, so it is not clear whether it belongs on this page. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:15, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Drat, I just added production data from a 1993, then I saw your link. Your map isn't shown (and I don't see how to get stable links to anything in FAOSTAT), but I was able to do a Countries by Commodity search. My 1993 source is badly out of date (production is up ~5 fold), but the rankings haven't changed much. Indonesia, China, Sri Lanka, Vietnam and Madagascar are top producers. According to [4], FAO does not distinguish between cinnamon and cassia. I'd guess "canella" is a misspelling intended to be recognizable to people speaking Romance languages.

The Cinnamomum burmannii article has an unreferenced claim that it is the most common cinnamon species. If C. burmannii is indeed the main cinnamon produced in Indonesia, this may be true. I'm going to see if I can track down a copy of [5], which may address production by species.Plantdrew (talk) 04:33, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Good luck with that expedition into the spice lands. If you have trouble finding the book, let me know; apparently I do have access to it. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 20:46, 13 November 2012 (UTC)