Talk:Collectivism

USSR and collectivism

How can USSR or the other stalinist states be described as "collectivist" when they were ruled by regimes and crime families unaccountable to and unalterable by the vast majority. These states could be better desrcribed as extreme individualist, sacrificing the rights of all individuals for the privileges of the concentrated few.

early socialists

How can it be justified to classify Hegel - in one line with Marx - as early socialist? Pherrmann (talk) 07:56, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Collectivism in psychology

This page discusses collectivism as a social and political philosophy. However, I've also heard it discussed in a psychological context, along with individualism. Specifically, these terms were used in discussion a person's or culture's concept of the self.

I took a university course on social psychology where collectivism and individualism were discussed when we covered a person's concept of the self. From what I recall, a predominantly individualist person would think of himself more in terms of his own attributes ("I am an engineer", "I like pie") while a predominantly collectivist person would think of himself more in terms of his relationships to others ("I am the son of Jason", "I live next door to Mark"). This idea motivated the discussion of the differences between cultures, where many European societies were described as individualist while many Asian societies were described as collectivist psychologically.

Anyone here who'd be able to give an insight on collectivism as it's defined and used in psychology? I'm not sure I'd be able to help much since psychology is not my major and I lost my class notes. :P 24.224.180.76 (talk) 01:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

This is the most Point Of View(POV) bias article on Wikipedia

One only has to look to see that this is true. 20% of this article is made up of criticism of collectivism, while the other 80% try to link collectivism to fascism and Racism. Most of this seems to be due by those calling themselves individualist, as the “individualism” article has no criticism section. In fact it is nothing more then why individualism is good and groups that claim to be individualist. The problem is that there is no group that calls itself collectivist out there. You can clearly see this by trying to find one pro-collectivist site out, to even start to balance this article out. You will find none; in fact the only link here to a site called “in defense of collectivism” leads to a dead link. This is the reason why there are no external links, and also why the references section is full of links to not only pro Ayn Rand sits, but also to anti-collectivism sties. In fact all the links are to other Wikipedia pages, and the first link is to “Collective guilt”. The rest are there to link collectivism to fascism and Racism by saying that in these systems the individual must submitted to the state or race. But let’s look at this with a little logic. If being a collectivist means giving up things for the group, and group lines are draw by race, state, or other then by its own terms it can’t be raciest. If a group defines itself in term of race, then people of a different race can’t be asked to sacrifice for it, as they are not part of the same group. We can all agree that collectivism is the opposite of individualism, but the way we have it defined does not show this. We right now define collectivism as the “few sacrificing for the many”, but define individualism as “individual not sacrificing for anyone”, be them individual or groups. If we truly define them as opposite, then individualism would be “the many sacrificing for the few”. The funny thing is that this is the way we have it define, but it is not open. Individualism talks about the state getting out of the way of the individual, which means that the state submitted to the wish of the individual, as long as it does not come into conflict with the wish of other individual. This is the opposite of an individual submitting to the state, but is not clearly written out that way. Logic itself can prove that the very idea of individualism does in fact lead to the “the many sacrificing for the few”. Let’s say that an individual steals money from a state. The state is not an individual, which based on Individualism we can all agree on. So the government has no right to take back the money, as that individual did not steal for other individual, but form a state. Trying to link collectivism to fascism is other clear sign that this article is write to say “that everything bad has happened because of collectivism”. Let’s forget that fascism opposes democratic systems, just like individualist do, or the fact fascism focused on which individual are better than one other. In fact I could just as easily prove that Individualist are fascist. The United States has ruled in the past those corporations are individual, and Corporatism is the economic system of fascism. Therefore Corporatism = individualism as, Corporatism is for corporations and corporations are individual. There no point in trying to clean up this bias article the Individualist will just change it back or go around about way of saying that collectivism is everything wrong with the world, while saying that individualism is everything right. I would like to see someone prove me wrong, but the fact are there. There is no pro- collectivism site, book or sources to reference. I would like it if someone would go over to the “individualism” article and prove to me that there is some criticism of individualism, but I know no one will find any. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.25.149.139 (talk) 14:50, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

• Corporations are not individuals. Corporatism is not individualism. Fascism is a form of collectivism, as it involves collectively following a fascist leader. Individualism involves opposition of fascism.--WTF (talk) 19:38, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Talk archive

Recommend establishing a talk archive operated by a bot for this article. All is One (talk) 23:47, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Y Done --IllaZilla (talk) 00:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

"Right-wing libertarians"

Ayn Rand and Ron Paul are referred to as "right-wing libertarians". I changed this to remove "right-wing" for a basis of neutrality (even though Rand did not categorize herself as a libertarian and was fairly critical of the libertarians), and it was reverted seemingly on the basis of an opinion. Point being, many commentators have said that Rand was not right-wing, citing her being in favor of abortion, and being an atheist, and it seems to me that the ones who consider Rand to be right-wing are usually critical of her. Her exact political views don't exactly fit the description "right-wing", except perhaps economically, if you consider favoring capitalism to be a right-wing position, which I do not. Libertarianism doesn't go hand-in-hand with right-wing politics, either, as libertarianism is usually a mix of being in favor of businessman's rights and social rights. --WTF (talk) 19:36, 24 February 2012 (UTC)