Talk:College athletics in the United States

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Please expand[edit]

This article needs to explain the context, eg how did college athletics get started? What are the landmark developments since then? How do the three major governing bodies relate to one another? Why is it so much more prominent in USA than elsewhere? Landolitan 01:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have done a good deal of research on this topic and plan to revise it. I have background sources that explain how college athletics official was started as well as the first organizations and events. These sources can be used in the revision of the "clubs" section. I'm also considering adding a new topic about the impact of college athletics in the United States and why it is so much greater here than in other countries. I believe that this article could do without the modern controversy section entirely, as it detracts from the purpose of the article. The overall purpose of the article should be to inform about college athletics, and not to focus on poor choices by certain individuals. Instead, I plan on discussing the debate over whether or not college athletes should be paid for their participation. Hopefully these changes will help to make this article useful. Krleslie

This answer is in response to why college athletics is so much more prominent in USA than elsewhere. A reason to this question is that no where else in the world is there so much emphasis on the educational timeline than in the US. It is expected in the US that after the completion of High School, one starts their higher education whereas in other countries, many students take time after high school to work, travel and explore. Thus the young competitiveness from high school sports is brought directly into the college arena. Additionally, the US is much bigger than most other countries. College sports create a sense of community and partnership with their fellow peers.

Agreeing about expanding[edit]

It has potential to be a great resource for college students as well as students to understand different topics such as pay for play and the life of a collegiate athlete. There should be more history and examples of the progression of sports in the US and an understanding of why this is a major topic among college athletes and sports dialogues. With more outside resources it can add depth to the page and more credibility. Other things to think about are other factors that make a college athlete, hinder athletes and what programs are instituted for the insurance of the best treatment of the athletes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smt46 (talk • contribs) 08:01, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Clubs[edit]

"I think I've heard" but I don't know when Yale or Harvard (1853?) established a rowing club, Amherst or Williams a baseball club, as opposed to a team --which needs selecting but not establishing. Harvard established a college club sometime 1864-1866, led by the class of 1866.

This paragraph of shaky incomplete facts lays groundwork for the early period of many college sports, maybe all of those underway for a few or several decades in the 19th century and early 20th century, varying by sport, region, gender?

  • class of '66 v class of '67 and other intramurals - I don't know this every attracted much outside attention; broadly, the institutions have left this level of competition to the students.
  • college team composed of the best players from all classes
    • organized by a club with student members, playing similar college teams that represent the colleges in a sense
    • taken over by the institutions, leaving the students with class teams, etc
    • incorporated in athletic departments, probably distinct from "take over" at least from some sports some schools

P64 06:30, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Football v. soccer[edit]

For future reference, the rules that students used when they played soccer or rugby in the 1870s didn't "resemble" the rules of those games, they were the rules of those games, sometimes with minor modifications. To say that the 1869 Rutgers v. Princeton match "resembled" soccer is to assume that soccer and rugby as played by the official rulemaking organizations in England have not changed since the nineteenth century -- although they have changed a great deal. --Bbob07 16:54, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Solution[edit]

One solution to this problem is to pay the team on how well they perform by the end of the season. For example, in college football a BCS poll is posted at the end of the year. In 2008 the University of Florida won the BCS National Championship in college football and that resulted in them becoming the number one team on the BCS poll. Since the Florida Gators were number one in the nation they would receive the most money, the number two would receive a little less and so on. Every team would end up getting some amount of money even if it is minimal. Then the team would split the reward amongst each other. By doing it this way their would be no jealousy on the team because everyone would acquire the same amount. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cjhardison (talk • contribs) 19:34, 12 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you erase my contribution? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cjhardison (talk • contribs) 19:32, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Your addition to the article was unsourced. See WP:Verify. →Wordbuilder (talk) 22:42, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:United States Education Program/Courses/Sport in Society (Shelly Habel)/Students[edit]

In talking about college athletics club sports and intramural sports are an important topic to address. You do bring it up once in your article but then do not discuss it again. If you do not want to address those topics at all I think you should change your title name to NCAA Recognized College Athletics or something of the sort. Onlybecauseihaveto (talk) 18:39, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When talking about college athletics, an important topic to address is Title IX and how it has changed NCAA sports over the past few decades. You mention Title IX in the section on the pay for play debate but do not go into more detail about it. Title IX is a very big part of college athletics (for better or for worse) and this article should mention it more. Carajs94 (talk) 23:58, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The beginnings section of this article can be improved. I think this section can maybe expand and extend its research all the way into the early 1900s. I thought it was random how it just stopped in 1876. I think the history of sports can be discussed in more in depth as well. I Definitely feel that more facts can be given in the student athlete section. This section can be improved by maybe first defining what a student athlete is and show how the concept has changed over time. So maybe more facts about student athletes. I really liked the paying college athletes portion. This is something that I am interested in researching(Aoa24 (talk) 05:03, 10 February 2012 (UTC)).[reply]

Education, classes, faculty control, etc[edit]

There seems to be a complete lack of coverage about "student-athletes" here - and I'm emphasizing the "student" part. In many (most? all?) US universities the athletic programs are formally controlled by faculty or faculty-committees. How does this affect "College athletics" - and I'm emphasizing the "College" part? I don't think I have the time to include this myself - but (perhaps reflicting the reality rather than the theory) it's almost entirely missing here. Smallbones (talk) 19:58, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article rename[edit]

The article was tagged as being too United States centric since 2009. The structure of the article doesn't allow for a non-American perspective to be included with out a radical rewrite and spinning off of much of this article into this article. It was easier to just move this article and create a stub at [[College athletics that can be reformed from a global perspective. --LauraHale (talk) 23:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Undue weight to professionalization of college athletics in the United States[edit]

I've tagged this article as giving undue weight to professionalization of college athletics in the United States. This needs to be trimmed back to probably about one section with two paragraphs. It might be worthy of its own article. The information also suffers problems because the sections added are insufficiently sourced. --LauraHale (talk) 03:08, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict of interest tag[edit]

I have tagged this article as WP:COI. There two students editing this article. In a conversation on #wikipedia-en-classroom connect, User:Aoa24 indicated their first priority was not in addressing problems with the article, but in meeting course requirements for editing. This is a clear conflict of interest, with User:Aoa24 prioritizing classroom objectives over article quality and compliance with Wikipedia policies. When User:Aoa24 is done with the course and no longer in a conflict of interest, I will support the removal of the tag. --LauraHale (talk) 03:13, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When will this class be finished? I don't want to wreck any student's class project, but if I start working on the article, I'm probably going to erase at least half of what is there and/or move it to another article. This article needs numerous changes.Mdak06 (talk) 22:40, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I too am a student who will be making edits to this article. The difference between the last student and myself is that I will be addressing problems with the article and making changes that follow Wikipedia's policies. If there are still a lot of issues that anyone feels need to be changed, feel free to let me know. I'm open to anything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yojimbo2342 (talk • contribs) 01:24, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Pay-for-Play Debate"[edit]

The discussion over paying collegiate athletes has been a long debated issue and needs to be further discussed. The sub-section in this article about pay-for-play needs more information on the con side of whether or not we should be paying our college athletes. This article violates the Wikipedia neutrality law on that it gives plenty of good information about "why we should" pay college athletes and not enough on "why we should not". Expanding on this would give more insight for future users on the views for both sides.C0RNHU5K3R13 (talk) 21:15, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Yes.
I'm familiar with the military academies where football earns big money, as in most winning schools (note that most schools are losing money in athletics. They are subsidized by the often unwilling student and/or state legislature out of general revenue). I think that is in the article someplace.
At the military academies, income is not considered "earned" by any one student. Football revenue is used to subsidize the other sports at the schools including other (low income) varsity sports and the (mandatory) intra-mural sports program. So every student plays in some sport at some level. The federal taxpayer does not subsidize the program, nor do the students-at-large. I don't have an immediate WP:RS for this, nor know how it would fit into the article without being considered WP:SYNTH, at this point. Student7 (talk) 00:01, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for Suggestions[edit]

I am working on a project for one of my classes, where I am going to be making edits to this article. If there is anything that you think needs to be revised, changed, or expanded on please feel free to reply. Any suggestions/comments will help. Thanks.

Yojimbo2342 (talk) 00:50, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Updated NCAA student athlete facts[edit]

I realized that there were a couple facts in the "Facts about NCAA student athletes" section that were without citations so I used NCAA publications to edit the statements to match what the NCAA lists as current statistics and rules. These two bullet points regarded the amount of student athletes in the NCAA and also the amount of these athletes that receive scholarships. Please let me know if anyone sees any issues with these edits. Thank you.

Cpawlik2113 (talk) 03:41, 26 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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