Talk:College lacrosse

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Fair use rationale for Image:NCAA lacrosse.gif[edit]

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BetacommandBot 05:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Women's?[edit]

Funny, while men may well play lacrosse, I more thoroughly associate it with women and women's sports. There are a lot of schools which field a women's team but not a men's team, partly as a balance to American football, which is almost exclusively male.

How is it that the subject of women's lacrosse gets almost totally short shrift here?
24.250.253.251 (talk) 14:20, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

This is a very valid criticism, although this same bias carries over in almost all sports discussions. Ultimately, someone should start a women's section to this entry and later expand that to an entirely new entry, once enough material has been built up. It would be a nice project for someone who has the time and inclination. Incidentally, the women's game is the newer and less covered version of this sport, in spite of the above comment. But it is definitely true that there are more women's varsity teams being established in short order as a way for the schools to balance against the rather large American football male rosters. EmjayMiller (talk) 23:59, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps since Women's lacrosse is fairly different (rules, equipment, etc) than the men's another article is more appropriate. Rename this article Men's college lacrosse and link to Women's college lacrosse in a "See Also" section. Bhockey10 (talk) 23:25, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

There is enough content available for a Women's college lacrosse section, but someone needs to put it together. There are NCAA Div I, II & III teams, Junior College teams and a whole slew of well organized college club teams under the auspices of US Lacrosse (USL WDIA). I don't have the time right now to do it myself. But there still needs to be a College lacrosse section that summarizes everything, which this current article doesn't do very well in my own opinion. This current article is really more a summary of Men's college lacrosse I'll agree, but until a better overall summary comes along, I think it should stay here. EmjayMiller (talk) 23:49, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree, whether it gets developed into a separate Women's college lacrosse article there still should be a summary of the info here. If anyone reading this and knows more about women's structure adding your knowledge to the would be greatly appreciated. Bhockey10 (talk) 02:37, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

NAIA lacrosse merge[edit]

I believe NAIA lacrosse should be merged into this page because it is basically an unreferenced list of the teams in the NAIA. It belongs in here after it is cleaned up a little bit. --Yarnalgo talk to me 20:41, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

It could be argued the NAIA entry needs to be cleaned up a LOT before it is possibly merged. I started checking on these so-called NAIA college lacrosse teams and so far, the only ones I'm finding are CLUB teams already affiliated with the MCLA or NCLL, referenced elsewhere. I'm thinking whoever started this section doesn't understand the distinction between club and varsity teams, even though these institutions go out of their way to keep that very clear. EmjayMiller (talk) 23:52, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

It appears that the NAIA teams participate in the MCLA but unlike the NCAA schools' club level teams they are funded by the athletic departments of the NAIA school. Bhockey10 (talk) 23:25, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
The NCAA has strict rules about how and when schools fund sports teams, so NCAA schools can't really fund "club teams" and still call them "clubs". I gather the NAIA has no such rules, so it appears some NAIA schools directly fund their "club" teams and some don't, but either way, almost all of them are operating under the MCLA, so I'd argue that's still the best place to discuss them. But I'm discovering at least a handful of NAIA schools with "club" teams that are not under the MCLA, but aren't governed by the NAIA either. That's where it get's really complicated. But until the NAIA sanctions these teams on some level, it seems confusing at best to refer to them as "NAIA" lacrosse programs. At this point, they're still just legally club programs that happen to be at NAIA schools. EmjayMiller (talk) 23:59, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm not an expert on the NAIA rulebook but I believe you are correct that the NAIA has no rules for funding sports outside of the NAIA. Until the NAIA adds Lacrosse to their sponsored sports discussing them under the MCLA is probably best although I do like that the information in the separate NAIA Lacrosse article gives some distinction to them vs. non-athletically funded club programs (i.e. NCAA schools funds usually come from Student Activities.)
I can think of one example of a team fully funded by the NAIA athletic department but not in MCLA. Indiana Institute of Technology. I would argue those teams are NAIA teams (just like the ones funded by the schools athletic departments currently competing in the MCLA. An NCAA example of this is Eastern Illinois University offering the only NCAA women’s rugby team. (despite the NCAA not holding championships for women’s rugby. Bhockey10 (talk) 02:37, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm discovering that some of the NAIA schools consider their MCLA teams to be "varsity" and thus the college pays the MCLA fees and others do not and allow them to operate strictly as club teams the same way a NCAA school would. And there seems to be no definitive list of which are which, though it appears over time we're able to ascertain this. The quickest method so far seems to be if the MCLA team appears on the official college athletics site with no mention of club status. That seems to be a dead giveaway of "varsity" NAIA teams. We definitely need to explain this as clearly as we can, because it's definitely an issue of some interest and some bit of controversy. EmjayMiller (talk) 20:15, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps split entries into college varsity and college club lacrosse?[edit]

As I'm looking at the club lacrosse information, I'm realizing it's oversimplified at the moment, since both the MCLA and NCLL both have 2 divisions each, within the same conferences. I'm noticing in the tables that these divisions are mixed together, though splitting them up properly will take about twice the space they have now. Plus, colleges often simultaneously host both varsity and club teams in the same sport, but listing these same schools twice in the same entry is likely to be overly confusing. Thoughts on splitting? EmjayMiller (talk) 00:10, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the sections should be kept together but to save room instead of using the tables more simple columns and lists could be used. Bhockey10 (talk) 23:25, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Are you advocating getting rid of all the tables here? Because I think they're really handy for the readers to summarize the information in a uniform format, all in one location. I've been trying to add more tables here and not less, like the NCAA DIII tables haven't been done yet. As it goes, there should really be much more detailed entries for each of the conferences, but those shouldn't be here, but at the conference entries. I think the tables work well here, but I'm open to detailed lists if those convey the same information in a more clear way for the readers. But the MCLA teams are not clearly organized on this page right now, but are on the MCLA page. I just think at some point we have to better delineate summary entries from more detailed ones.
Can you direct me to a page with the lists you like better than the tables? I'd just like to see how they look and read compared to these tables. EmjayMiller (talk) 00:08, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
I like the tables too so either add the MCLA DII tables below each of the DIs or the column idea that came to my mind was similar to the List of MCLA teams format but with the teams of each Conference in two columns. Below is an example of the first conference with the first 3 teams from each Div. just as an example:

Central Collegiate Lacrosse Association

Bhockey10 (talk) 02:37, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Your idea is good, but it appears from the just concluded summer MCLA board meeting that the conferences are expanding, but not evenly between divisions. So the columns won't be even, which isn't the end of the world, but I'm bringing up the aesthetics of that, if that's any consideration. EmjayMiller (talk) 20:50, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

2011 cleanup[edit]

It hit me earlier today how to address a number of issues particularly with the lack of women's lacrosse coverage and also the possible splitting of the article (as discussed in the discussions above). After taking a look at other similar articles on the other college sports I realized the tables of every team is the thing that is creating the length of the article and also creating more of a list than an article. I used the format of other college sport articles and also of the NCAA DIII section and now all sections are similar With a paragraph or two of prose then a short list of the conferences. The sections can/should be expanded with more writing and information but this is a good start. Decreasing the amount of tables also provided more room for Women’s NCAA lacrosse information. Now Men’s and Women’s LAX are covered evenly in the article. In addition to new sections on NCAA women's lacrosse there are short sections for NAIA and NJCAA lacrosse. I originally kept tables of the Independent NCAA programs but that gave undue weight for them compared to the others so those tables were moved to a new page NCAA independent schools (lacrosse) and linked via an item in the conferences section. Overall I think the changes were effective. We now have room to add more information without the article becoming too large to find info and make it difficult for readers. Bhockey10 (talk) 05:35, 15 April 2011 (UTC)