Talk:Common Ground Collective

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Citation needed[edit]

A citation is needed for the Nightline quote about 2000 volunteers, mostly white, untainted by cynicism etc. It's a nice quote, but I couldn't find it via Google News or on the Nightline Web site. — Muffuletta 22:07, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I saw the interview on the NightLine website. However, it's impossible to find the article on the website. Is there a reason that quote is needed? The volunteer count goes up and down, and the mix of volunteers changes along with it. My last time there we had 100+ kids from Howard University for Spring Break. Tall Girl 08:47, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Not really. Somebody put the quote in there, so I thought I'd find a citation for it, but it doesn't matter. Actually, Common Ground has done so much stuff, the article could be way expanded irrespective of any quotes from the national news media. -- Muffuletta 00:47, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
So, how does this sound -- we leave the quote in, remove the tag saying the citation is needed, say the quote is unverified and that the volunteer population and demographics rise and fall over time? Oh, and we hook up for lunch next weekend and split half a Muff? Tall Girl 04:25, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. I removed the {{fact}} tag, and if I have time today or tomorrow I'll add some more text to the article. But wait... split half a muffuletta? That could get ugly. I've never split a half. I'd be saying, hey, is that all I get? But we can sort all that out when I get back home from my temporary exile. -- Muffuletta 15:29, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Muffuletta, sorry I missed you during my last trip. I stayed at Pauline, then went into the Quarter to find breakfast, only to have my car break down. But that's not why I'm actually writing -- I have what I think is a really nice photo of the Blue House in the Lower 9th that I think would make a nice anchor for a discussion about what's going on in the Lower 9th. Perhaps we could start a section on that and I'll clean up the photo and contribute it. Tall Girl 06:37, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Several photos of the Common Grounds station in the Lower 9th are in Commons:Category:Hurricane Katrina aftermath in the Lower 9th Ward, New Orleans.(I also have a photo of the "blue house" before it became the Common Ground station.) I made a start at a "Category:Common Ground Collective" category and added to the article. Adding more photos to our archive at Wikimedia Commons would be great. --Infrogmation 10:21, 15 May 2006 (UTC) P.S.: Drop me a note should y'all want to do a New Orleans Wikipedians IRL meet.

So ... what the heck is "housing remediation" and who's the source for us having done more in the Lower 9 than the Upper 9? The Lower 9 rocks and all that, but my experience is we've been in the Upper 9 a LOT more. I'm not going add a {{fact}} tag, but I'd like to see that claim sourced. Tall Girl 03:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


Co-founders and Organizers of Common Ground[edit]

I co-founded Common Ground with Malik at the table in his kitchen while Darby went looking for Robert King on the otehr side of the river (the second time we went to NOLA). I know because I was there. Darby had NOTHING to do with the organizational analysis, creating the original idea, the programs or even doing the work. He and I DID go to New Orleans to find King, but Darby wanted to leave right after that. The first night when Malik gathered the residents on his street I asked them how we could help, and picking up garbage was the answer. Malik, Sharon, and I did it with no gloves and few bags into the late evening. Darby smoked cigarettes and stood around. I know because I was there. I wrote the first drafts of the organizations and brought them to Malik. Malik liked them. I didn't go to the media and toot my horn. I worked building an organziation from the from from the ground up to support people who were already marginalized to gain their footing again. Darby was not an architect in the idea, or design. Anyone who says otherwise is confused to say the least. I don't care what the media says. All of this will all come out in my book.

I have added Lisa Fithian, Kerul Dyer, Suncere Shakur and Emily Posner because while Darby was gone back to his life in the early formative weeks these are some of the people who helped establish the crucial foundations, underpinnings and relationships throughout New Orleans and the surrounding areas including : 7th ward, 9th ward,Algiers, Houma, Port Au Chen. these are also organizers who stayed for long periods of time and did the long time, behind the scenes work for literally months and years. They were there before him and after he left. They were decision makers and fundraisers.

There are many articles and many conflicting accounts of the origins as well as who ran the organization over the years. I don't just have an outside opinion. I also have nothing to lose or gain by Darby having credit, except it just isn't true. Or at the least it is no more true than all the other organizers who did more than him.

I have written about this many times and don't need to get into a argument with some anonymous internet person who keeps changing things on an entry about my life. I hope this begins to put this to rest. It seems like such a waste of everyone's time. Much of this will be clarified in my forthcoming books : "Black Flags and Windmills: Hope, Anarchy and the Common Ground Collective (due out on Aug. 2010) and "Standing on the Edge of Potential" a collected anthology from long time Common Ground organizers (due out in 2011).

I am happy to clarify legitimate questions from anyone on this.

Scottcrow (talk)scott crow 01.09.10 —Preceding undated comment added 00:40, 10 January 2010 (UTC).

Criticism[edit]

Hi folks. I added a very short section detailing some of the common criticisms of Common Ground, as taken from the message board. I would greatly appreciate help expanding it with rebuttals and/or anything to make it more complete and neutral. Also, i was unsure of how to source the forum, so if someone could help me out there, as well, that'd be cool. SReynhout 23:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd be leery of trying to "source" the forum because most of the statements there are unverifiable. I think that CGC is being held to an unrealistically high level of expectations in part because it's a group that is trying to "do good". This isn't to say that criticism is a bad thing, but I think it needs to be kept in perspective. Tall Girl 04:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that forums are considered unreliable sources, and should not be used at all. Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published_sources_.28online_and_paper.29 Murderbike 21:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Someone should really change the "Philosophy away from Anarchism. If anyone has ever seen what they do it is the farthest thing from Anarchism. Sure they perform some extra-legal moves around the government, but they do it to help people and in turn the government never follows up or arrests anyone. It should be clear that they have a very specific "Grass-Roots" kind of love for doing good and helping people. David (email crobaropen@yahoo.com) --70.56.70.139 (talk) 20:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Their approach is compatible with Anarchism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism ifny (talk) 19:46, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Neutrality of Language[edit]

So even though I have already mentioned this in an earlier comment I will ask to bring the topic to light again and revisit the language used in the article. After discussing the argument with a Wikipedia help center representative I have proceeded to post the "Language Neutrality" warning at the top of the article. I feel that the language in this article highlights the more negative aspects of the group known as "The Common Ground Collective" and that it does not highlight some of the opposite sides of the arguments. Whether discussing their "unauthorized" gutting of a local high school (and it should be noted that the high school was later rebuilt by the local government even though they didn't want to in the first place) or whether discussing their "squatting" (which is actually in some cases more of an agreement made between Common Ground and the previous land owners to use their now unwanted land).

I would love to receive constructive criticism and ideas about the language used in the piece, if there are arguments to be made against my points I would also like to discuss those.
Please post under this topic or reply do me direct via email (no spam please). David (email crobaropen@yahoo.com) --70.56.70.139 (talk) 20:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Timeline[edit]

I think a Timeline showing significant events would be an excellent addition to the article Cloroxcowboy (talk) 16:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Thomas Pepper - Common Ground Relief Operations Director Sources[edit]

Common Ground Relief[edit]

KYNO Radio [1]

NY Times[2]

Times-Picayune [3]

Gus Boulis Murder Investigation[edit]

Miami Channel 10 news [4]

South Florida Sun-Sentinel [5]

South Florida Sun-Sentinel [6] Cloroxcowboy (talk) 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Running Out of Time[edit]

The people involved in this organization are drifting away from the city and it'll soon be very difficult if not impossible to figure out their story with any accuracy. Common Ground had a significant impact on the city in the immediate aftermath of Katrina and time will only make that story harder to tell. Leodmacleod ?, 14 May 2008 (Came back and signed several hours after the fact)

Founders are Malik Rahim and Scott Crow[edit]

The co-founders of Common Ground are Malik Rahim and Scott Crow. User:Cloroxcowboy has reverted this verifiable and documented fact twice. Please provide explanation if you want to revert it again. Eclectek C T 20:48, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Malik Rahim himself stated today 1/6/09 on the radio program Democracy Now! that Brandon Darby was one of the founders of Common Ground. Members of the group are denying Brandon's role in founding the group but Rahim bluntly stated that Darby was a founder as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.191.60.249 (talk) 14:58, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

According to interviews with Crow and interviews and speeches by Rahim ,as well as the Common Ground Relief website, Brandon Darby is not listed as a co-founder, but they have said was a major organizer. See this article as an example: http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid%3A729400 -- Ransdy May, 05, 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ransdy (talkcontribs) 16:32, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Allegation against Brandon Darby[edit]

One corporate media article which list "independent sources, who declined to be named,.." is not a reliable source. It looks to be speculative on the part of the author David Hanners, and potentially libelous. Clorox Cowboy has on numerous occasions posted comments and additions that appear to be very negatively directed at Common Ground and it's former organizers that seem potentially vandal in intent. In this case if look at what I removed it never uses the words 'alleged' or 'purported to be' it only lists it as a fact. In an opinion piece written by Scott Crow on numerous other websites he claims to have spoken to the reporter and that the 'unnamed source' was in fact the government. I cannot verify that or not. To me if there are open cases, which all of these seem to be, that haven't been decided by juries then all of this is speculation. None of the released documents that list an informant (see www.twincitiesindymeida.org) list Brandon Darby by name. In fact they are quite vague. I think inclusion is at most damaging and at the least gossip at this time. If you have other sources please list them. (User :Ransdy)

Woodlands Apartment complex[edit]

I see this whole article needs extensive updating and clean up, but i am addressing this issue as it looks like vandalism or a brewing revision fight. I noticed this section had been removed and then replaced. In searching the internet (not always the best place) I can only find a couple of mentions of this in regards to Common Ground, mostly to do with a lawsuit. Was the lawsuit ever filed? It is not listed on Common Ground's site, and can see no personal narratives about its impact on the organization. I am proposing to either remove it (as it was before) or to combine it in another section. It doesn't seem to carry as much weight as say , the Civil Rights or Former Directors FBI Ties sections. I will leave it as is unless no one responds here in a timely manner. There is plenty more editing to do. I would love to see this page reworked sometime. It was a good organization in New Orleans. Thank You. Ransdy (talk) 23:16, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Civil Rights Work[edit]

I edited this section for flow and NPOV, and did my best to tread lightly.

Unfortunately as the case was dismissed the factual phrasing had to be commuted to 'allegations'.

Section still needs some help wrt clarity, but I do not possess sufficient information to clarify further. Perhaps others who are more knowledgeable on the subject can amend.

  • "Partnership between Tulane University, the Advancement Project, and Common Ground Collective provided an opportunity to protect the civil rights of Americans still struggling to recover from the storm."
    • Does this refer to the court case only, or other work that is not yet mentioned?
  • It is unclear what "advanced the argument" refers to in the context of the case. Does it mean testified? Provided material support? I did a quick Google search and was not able to find anything, nor was I successful looking in the Findlaw summary.
  • What International Law was violated according to the case? Was it included in the original case?
    • I can't find mention of this particular aspect of the case online; perhaps there is an offline source/reference that can be included.
  • "Common Ground, the Advancement Project and Tulane advanced the argument that race-based discrimination was taking place, injuriously affecting the working class African American community populating the Lower 9th Ward of New Orleans. The 5th and 14th Amendments were allegedly violated when the United States deprived community members of their right to due process, and it allegedly violated treaties to which it is a signatory by depriving Americans of the right to return to their homes." (See revision history if you want to see what I adapted this from.)
    • Due to placement of the last sentence, it seems that the original author was stating these items were part of the argument-advancement provided by Common Ground et al. Is this correct? And was this their testimony? Or was it a statement of the allegations in the case? It would be good to rewrite for clarity.

ifny (talk) 19:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC)