Talk:Communication Breakdown

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Actual writing and composing

It would be nice to know how this song came about, who wrote and composed it vs. the band members all simply getting credit. Misty MH (talk) 10:31, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

The most information I've got is from Lewis' books; which basically says Page had a riff, they jammed it in the Gerrard Street rehearsals in early September '68, went and toured it in Scandanavia, taped it in October, then it was just a regular live piece from then on. I don't think there was any grand plan behind it. As it was more or less worked out together, they should have all got credit, but Plant didn't owing to contractual obligations. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:44, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. Misty MH (talk) 22:29, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Application of CITEVAR

Synthwave.94 made some changes to the Template:Cite web used for one source in the article:

Before Synthwave change 1/19/22):

{{Cite AV media notes| year = 1969| title = ''"Good Times Bad Times" / "Communication Breakdown"''| type = Single notes| others = [[Led Zeppelin]]| location = New York City| publisher = [[Atlantic Records]]| id = 45-2613| at = B-side label}},

which displays as

"Good Times Bad Times" / "Communication Breakdown" (Single notes). Led Zeppelin. New York City: Atlantic Records. 1969. B-side label. 45-2613.{{cite AV media notes}}: CS1 maint: others in cite AV media (notes) (link)

After Synthwave changed 2/16/22):

{{cite AV media notes|title = "Good Times Bad Times"/"Communication Breakdown" |others= [[Led Zeppelin]] |year= 1969 |type= Single notes |publisher= [[Atlantic Records]] |id= 45-2613 |location= New York City |at= B-side label}},

which displays as

"Good Times Bad Times"/"Communication Breakdown" (Single notes). Led Zeppelin. New York City: Atlantic Records. 1969. B-side label. 45-2613.{{cite AV media notes}}: CS1 maint: others in cite AV media (notes) (link)

The only displayed differences are that the song titles were changed to italics and the spacing between the two was removed. According to MOS:POPMUSIC (a WP guideline), "song and single titles should be in quotes: "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"". By removed the spacing, the forward slash butts up against the quote mark and produces a somewhat run-together, jumbled appearance. They also removed some of the spacing in the parameters and changed a capital "C" to lower case, which do not produce any difference in how the citations are displayed.

Synthwave's change was reverted,[1] which they in turn reverted with the edit summary "per WP:CITEVAR". CITEVAR (a guideline) includes "Editors should not attempt to change an article's established citation style merely on the grounds of personal preference, to make it match other articles, or without first seeking consensus for the change."[2] The citation style used in the "Before" edit follows what was in the article at the time by using quote marks for song titles and the two other instances of web sources by using {{Cite web}}. Minor variations in capitalization and the parameter spacing already existed in the article; in fact, Synthwave uses {{cite web}} and |title = , while a much earlier different citation uses {{Cite web}} and |title= .

Minor variations in citation template spacing, capitalization, or hyphenation that do not affect the actual rendered appearance in the article are not contrary to CITEVAR, according to several comments at WP:Citing Sources during a 7/24/21 request for CITEVAR clarification. These include (truncated, see the link for the full text):

• "There have been RFCs that appear to say that WP:CITEVAR does not apply to the form of a wikitext citation when differences of form or style cannot be detected by the reader."
• "capitalization or decapitalization of parameters, non-newline spacing, reordering of parameters, or the renaming of parameter names to the more "correct" version (like "access-date" over "accessdate") are activities outside of what citevar is meant to cover."

Synthwave was incorrect in citing CITEVAR to justify their use of italics for song titles and making changes to parameter spacing which the reader does not see. In fact, they are not even consistent with other citation templates in the article, if that was their intent. This may be a minor point, but CITEVAR has been used to justify wholesale reverting of additions of reliably sourced material solely because the template spacing and/or capitalization don't match. The hope here is to prevent further misapplication of CITEVAR and the article should be reverted to its prior state.

—Ojorojo (talk) 16:15, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Synthwave.94 has not provided any additional justification or response to this, so I'll go ahead and restore the earlier "Before" version. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:30, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Who wrote the lyrics, Plant?

And more info on what it means that he had some contract preventing him from receiving credit for this? Misty MH (talk) 22:29, 19 October 2022 (UTC)