Talk:Confederate Memorial Day
|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Confederate Memorial Day article.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
Official state holiday?
Does anybody which, if any, states consider CMD to be an official U.S. state holiday? Traditional Catholic 16:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC) Until I know its legal status I'm gonna change its category of Holidays of the United States. Thanks. jengod 20:58, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)
most state offices are Closed in observance --Jober14 15:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
South Carolina schools take this day off. It is an "offical holiday" for the school system. Dorchester county district 4 does not observe this day but the Dorchester county government does observe it.
May 10th is legally declared Confederate Memorial Day by the state of South Carolina. Refer to South Carolina Code of Laws, Title 53 - Sundays, Holidays and Other Special Days; SECTION 53-5-10. Legal holidays enumerated; state employees. http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t53c005.htm.
The history section looks more like fanciful fiction or a regional piece of folk lore. I don't have historical record of this holiday's origin, but surely there must be a more scholarly source. I would suggest that the original "history" be relabled as "associated lore" or what-have-you, it's clearly not objective historical fact.
Consult http://www1.va.gov/opa/speceven/memday/history.asp Traditional Catholic 16:52, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Having lived in Mississippi for my whole life and never having heard about this "holiday", it seems to be just some paltry attempt at either humor or insult to people south of the Mason-Dixon Line. --J. S. Freeman 18:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't know what cave in Mississippi Mr Freeman is living in, but CMD has been celebrated every year for the 30 years I've lived in Mississippi. (Ray) 22:37, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I live in Atlanta, GA. The state recognizes this as a holiday and all state offices are closed - including my employer, the State Credit Union. ~Michael Cyr 28 March 2007
(to the above) That's interesting, because having lived in GA all of my life I never once had a day off from work or school on that day. And, if you read one of the links posted below, it says that from 1984 on the state government only observes federal holidays. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 06:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
There is an excellent book entitled Confederate Memorial Days 1866-1985 describing the observances in Fredericksburg VA during those years. I don't think there is any real doubt that Confederate Memorial Day exists and has existed since the end of the WBTS. CsikosLo 17:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Here is a link to a great write up from the University of Georgia about Confederate Memorial Day http://www.cviog.uga.edu/Projects/gainfo/confmem.htm A link from timeanddate.com http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/us/confederate-memorial-day AND a link from MS Secretary of State about CMD becomeing an official Holiday: http://www.sos.state.ms.us/pubs/Proclamations/Confederate.asp About.com http://genealogy.about.com/b/2006/05/10/confederate-memorial-day.htm There can be no dispute about it in MS. There are too many sources to list them all but the OFFICIAL MS State site makes it indisputable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 05:19, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
i do not think that quoting "From the May, 1893 issue of "Confederate Veteran," the Origin of Memorial Day" is useful. perhaps some expert can put a real citation perhaps with a link or library of congress reference. also, as a structural format issue, the beginning and end of this citation is not clear. maybe it should be indented in different font. also, i would assume there must have been a similarly contrary writing that disputes the relgiously and geographically biased reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Data87 (talk • contribs) 16:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Here is a link to an article about the observance of CMD in 2007. http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070430/localnews/171018.shtml s20130 I also live in Atlanta and know of no Confederate Memorial Day in which offices are closed. However, I have gone to "Decoration" all my life at a family church in Alabama, but there is no Holiday other than the federal "Memorial Day" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 12:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
You can go to the State of Georgia website, and it lists all state holidays. This includes Confederate Memorial Day, celebrated April 26th: http://www.georgia.gov/00/channel_modifieddate/0,2096,4802_64437763,00.html. Also, the holiday is tacitly codified at O.C.G.A. 1-4-1; to wit: "the Governor shall include at least one of the following dates: January 19, April 26, or June 3, or a suitable date in lieu thereof to commemorate the event or events now observed by such dates." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 22:30, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
That is not a sufficient source.
First, the source quoted for the history section directly contradictsWikipedia's own Memorial Day entry re: origins; second, it displays a clear bias for the southern states, and Georgia in particular, as does the link you provide.
Until someone can provide a scholarly historical source, I'm changing the "History" heading to "Folk Lore," which more accurately describes that content.
Also: what in the heck does Leo Frank have to do with Confederate Memorial Day???
Finally: in my actions above I am disputing the factual accuracy of specifically the history section. It either needs to be reconciled with the history of Wikipedia's Memorial Day entry, or removed, or edited to include scholarly/reliable sources, not society rags from the turn of the century.
I'm going to reaffirm my changes above (when I was an anonymous user). If someone wants the society rag to appear as History, I'd like to see some discussion on this page justifying that move.
Again, the article about the history of Confederate Memorial Day's birth is full of florid prose and angels and what-not. It's not an academic source. It's speculative fiction posing as society rag journalism. I'm leaving it in, but marking it as what it is: folklore. King Mongo 23:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Here are your Academic sources: University of Georgia http://www.cviog.uga.edu/Projects/gainfo/confmem.htm
And one from the US Embassy in Stockholm http://stockholm.usembassy.gov/holidays/celebrate/memorial.html
What exactly do you mean by "scholarly"? Thats a pretty subjective word, and it seems pretty obvious it was designed to cause anger. There are several links to sites from colleges, which is about as "scholarly" as you can get. Just because the colleges are in the south doesn't make them any less legitimate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 03:22, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
I believe that by "scholarly" it is meant [peer reviewed] or [primary sources] (publications in peer reviewed journals or original documents, respectively--check out the respective wikipedia articles). A university's web page, whether in North, South, or elsewhere, doesn't qualify. I don't doubt that CMD exists or has existed, but I don't think any offense was intended by a request for "scholarly" sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 20:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Confederate Decoration Day, June 3rd, is a "day of special observance" pursuant to Tennessee code Annotated 15-2-101 and it is the duty of the Governor to proclaim it as such annually. It is not an official holiday.
Just a note to say that the "table" is somewhat misleading as refers to Texas. To wit, the "see Arkansas" notation...which in turn states that MLK and the Confederate holiday are combined. In Texas, Confederate Heroes Day is ALWAYS on January 19 (Robert E. Lee's birthday), whereas MLK Day is officially observed on the 3rd Monday in January...which may or may not fall on the 19th.
Confederate Heroes Day is a state holiday and should not be confused with Confederate Memorial Day which is April 26th.
January 19 - Confederate Heroes Day (partial staffing holiday) House Bill 126, 42nd Legislature Regular Session. Chapter 8. Approved and Effective January 30, 1931 as Robert E. Lee's Birthday.
Senate Bill 60, 63rd Legislature Regular Session. Chapter 221. Approved June 1, 1973 and Effective August 27, 1973 as Confederate Heroes Day. This bill deleted June 3rd as a holiday for Jefferson Davis' birthday and combined the two into Confederate Heroes Day.
3rd Monday - Martin Luther King Jr. Day Senate Bill 485, 70th Legislature Regular Session. Chapter 159. Approved May 25, 1987 and Effective August 31, 1987 as an optional holiday.
Senate Bill 134, 72nd Legislature Regular Session. Chapter 445. Approved and Effective on June 11, 1991 as an official state holiday.
I understand what Senate Bill 60 says, but I would think the intention was to combine Lee's B-day and Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson's B-day (January 21) into Confederate Heroes Day. That seems to make more sense.220.127.116.11 11:43, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
>>As a little clarification on the original intent behind Confederate Heroes Day (as I have been able to research it), prior to 1973, the State of Texas observed both Robert E. Lee's birthday (January 19) AND Jefferson Davis' (June 3) as official state holidays. When Lyndon Johnson died that year, the state wanted to honor the former president's (and native sons) birthday, however the number of legal holidays was limited by law (I am a little shaky on this one). To solve the problem, Lee and Davis' birthdays were combined into one single observance in order to make room for one for LBJ. It was renamed Confederate Heroes Day so as to not only honor Lee and Davis, but all who wore the Gray and/or served the Confederacy. Hope that might help a bit! TexasReb 16:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Confederate Memorial Day is included in the Constitution of Alabama http://www.legislature.state.al.us/codeofalabama/1975/1-3-8.htm
Apparently there are some changes afoot in Alabama. CMD has always been a state holiday, but now CMD and Jeff Davis' birthday, another state holiday, will no longer be mandatory days off for state employees. Though the holidays will stay on the books, state employees will now get two personal days off that will compensate for the loss of the official time off on those days. State offices will now officially remain open on those days. DesScorp 22:00, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Copy and Paste Article?
The "History of Confederate Memorial Day" section is a direct cut-and-paste, and not just sourced from, the Department of Veterans' Affairs website, complete with unformatted section headlines. It would also appear that the same thing happened with the "Folklore" section (from a different source), and that section has severe NPOV issues and is written in a florid sentimental style that could work as a quotation, but not an actual Wikipedia article. Is a reformat, if not a complete rewrite, called for here? --Enwilson 01:06, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm working on rewriting this article. So far I've summarized the History section. Without another source, it's little more than a paraphrase of the original, but I think it's a little better, and I removed the unnecessary history of Decoration Day; people can read the Decoration Day article if they want more on that. Here it is:
- By the time Decoration Day was established by the Grand Army of the Republic in 1868, local springtime tributes to the Civil War dead had already been held in various places. In Columbus, Mississippi on April 25, 1866, a group of women decorated the graves of Confederate soldiers who fell at the Battle of Shiloh. Graves of Union soldiers had been neglected because they were the enemy, but the women placed flowers at those graves as well.
- Today, approximately 25 cities claim to be the birthplace of Memorial Day in 1866, including Macon, Georgia; Columbus, Georgia; and Richmond, Florida. Boalsburg, Pennsylvania claims to have started the holiday in 1864. Most of the cities claiming connection with the holiday are in the South, where most of the war dead were buried.
But I think we need more specifically about Confederate Memorial Day.
--18.104.22.168 13:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree. I don't see the relevance of the GAR info (which is still here, by the way) in an article about Confederate Memorial Day. CsikosLo 17:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
For any rewrite, there is some good information in a book called Confederates in the Attic. If you don't have the book or access to it, let me know through this page, and I would be more than happy to put up some of their history of the holiday as presented in the book. (22.214.171.124 (talk)Victoria, Charleston, SC126.96.36.199 (talk)) —Preceding comment was added at 04:01, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Decoration Day in Tennessee stems farther back than this, to Revolutionary War and War of 1812 soldiers as a day of honor for the fallen for our country. Families & friends would decorate the cemetaries of the lost family members especially of the ones lost that never made it back home. It has been a time honored tradition in Tennessee for each cemetery to have a Decoration day and the families come together to honor the our forefathers, mothers,kin, and friends. This is a stupid debate who did it first. This is a tradition for time memorial in the south. All southern people did it prior to the 1861-1865 War due to the sacrifices made to make this country from the Initial War of Independence and the Second war of independence that we almost lost this country in the War of 1812. They did it to honor the ones that gave their all and honor all family members. So many women & children & workers in both wars that did so much, that was never credited nor honored for all they did to keep the men in the ranks of the army and navy. Grow up and think how they lived back then. They made a Confederate Memorial Day to honor the fallen or the ones that served. So honor them as the intent, not this retoric. It was a horrific war that tore families apart and give them their day in the sun for their beliefs. If we lost the Revolutionary war or War of 1812 we would want the same for them. This was started by family members & friends to honor them. Not one person did this. It was the families, widows, orphans that started this from all over the south and it was only natural for a day to be named in each state for it by the state legislatures. All races, creeds, and beliefs served the Confederacy read history and find out not political retoric or personal opinions. This is a mute point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs)
secretary of state isn't charlie daniels.
the link to the Arkansas secretary of state's website incorrectly names him as Charlie Daniels. The Arkansas sec. of state is Mark Martin. Looks like someone was having fun with links. I couldn't figure out how to change it, but I could figure out how to make a comment here, so here we go. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:26, 17 January 2011 (UTC)