Talk:Confederation of the Rhine

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Alright I am probably going to need help on this one. The intial draft is very poorly worded but its something. I'll try to clean it up and augment it next week. cheers. GrazingshipIV

Flag[edit]

I noticed an error: The flag is the flag of France - not the flag of the Confederation of the Rhine. I presume, that the confederation has never had an own flag. But the different member states of the confederation used their flags for themselves. The member states of the Confederation of the Rhine had not been part of France, but had accepted Napoleon in his function as "protector". This fact doesn't make the Confederation of the Rhine a part of France. So the flag of France is no official symbol for the Confederation of the Rhine! The member states had been co-founders of the Confederation of the Rhine. So they had been subjects not objects of international law. Formally they kept their sovereignty and were no client states of France. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.207.181.26 (talkcontribs)

The Flags of the World site says that the French flag was used for the Confederation of the Rhine. Member states did use their own flags, but the Confederation itself used the French one. Using the French flag does not necessarily imply that the Confederation was part of France. - 52 Pickup 10:46, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry,52 Pickup, but the honoured tricolor is not the flag of the Conf. of the Rhine. I can't remember clearly but I THINK it was orange-ish and had sort of a white rising sun. Main point: That is not the right flag. I wikianswer-ed it and found this out.Philippe Auguste 01:49, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

A flag allegedly used by the confederation
The only other flag that I have seen is this one on the right, but it is stated in many places (e.g. [1]) that this was only allegedly used and not used officially . On FOTW it says "The Confederation of the Rhine had no flag but the French [flag] and the Imperial Standard of its protector (Napoleon)." And other sites use the French flag to represent the confederation (eg. [2]). If you have references for this orange flag of which you speak, I would be interested to see them. But as far as the info looks right now, the Confederation was represented either by the French flag or by none at all. - 52 Pickup 07:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I understand, I stated no sources therefore what I say isn't reliable. But that flag is one I've seen before used for the Conf. of the Rhine. The other one I said I saw before in an almanac somewhere. How'd you find/make the flag here? Maybe I could show you what I saw.Philippe Auguste (talk) 23:38, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

To make a flag, any graphics program will do. But without stating where the image came from, placing an image here on Wiki might be a problem. Maybe if you ask the people over at FOTW they could help you out with finding the image and/or some further information. Either way, I'd be interested to hear how it goes. - 52 Pickup (talk) 10:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

The French flag as the flag of the Conf. of Rhine would mean, that the Conf. of Rhine was a part of France or France was the suzerain of it. But France was - following the Rheinbundakte (contract between France and 16 German princes) - only the military alliance partner of the Conf. of Rhine and no part of it. The emperor of France was only the "protector" and no suzerain of the Conf. of Rhine. So I presume that there was no official flag of the Conf. of Rhine. Its members used their individual flags, because they have kept their souverainity and wanted to show it. 82.207.181.26 (talk) 13:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Erfurt[edit]

It says, that all of the Holy Roman Empire except for Danish Holstein, Swedish Pommern, Prussia and Austria were part of the Confederation of the Rhine, the land west of the Rhine and large parts of northwestern Germany were incorporated into France. This misregards Erfurt, which was incorporated into France as well when obtained from Prussia, and which was consequently not part of the Confederation. The wording should be redone in this sense or a clause be added that mentions this fact. 87.234.124.78 21:17, 12 July 2007 (UTC)Toscho

List of members[edit]

I'd like to change it to a table, so that it can be organized in different ways. Any objections? Andrew647 15:00, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Not a client-state[edit]

I don't think, that the Confederation of the Rhine had been a state or a client-state. I think the Confederation of the Rhine had been a confederation of client-states (please look into the "Rheinbundakte", the treaty between France an the 16 german princes!). The "Rheinbund"-states had been de iure souverain, but de facto clients of France. So the article should be corrected in this point! Tfjt (talk) 18:36, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. It was not a state. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 17:48, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

"Rhine Confederation" [sic][edit]

Does that exact phrasing have any legitimacy in English?
A preliminary web search does not reveal any. The "Flags of the World" site is not a guide to English language usage.
"Rhine Confederation" is one literal translation of the German Rheinbund, yes, but that appears to be all.
That phrasing can be restored with a proper citation.
Varlaam (talk) 17:35, 10 November 2011 (UTC)