Talk:Constantine XI Palaiologos

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Move request for emperors of the Palaeologus/Palaiologos dynasty[edit]

There is a move request for several Palaeologus/Palaiologos dynasty emperors at Talk:List of Byzantine Emperors. --Panairjdde 23:37, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Distaff prestige[edit]

Quoth the article:

In a variant of the Byzantine practice of adopting the distaff surname where it connoted more prestige, Constantine liked to be known by his mother's name of Dragaš (Serbian: Драгаш) or Dragasēs, which she inherited from her Serbian father.

Is this really meant to imply that the Serbian name had more presige than Palaiologos? I find this sort of hard to believe... --Jfruh (talk) 21:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I do not know if we can generalize but the adoption of the distaff surname by emperors (with no exclusion of the regularly inherited one) can be observed in a couple of other cases: Theodore II Doukas Laskaris (sometimes just Laskaris) and Matthew Asan(es) Kantakouzenos. But yes, for all their importance, the parvenu Dragaš family probably do not quite justify this wording in the article (though that does say "in a variant..."). They were certainly less prestigeous than the Palaiologoi. The emperor probably wished to honor his mother and her lineage. Most Byzantines were actually quite happy to pile up as many surnames as they could lay claim to. The first three Palaiologoi, Michael VIII, Andronikos II, and Michael IX, in fact employed an elaborate surname, as follows: Doukas Angelos Komnenos Palaiologos. I suppose that after the dynasty had spent 60 years on the throne, plain Palaiologos sufficed for their successors. Imladjov 12:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Us or Os[edit]

It seems to me that if he had a greek name the latinised form should stick with the greek spelling. My name is Καρανικολας(Karanicholas). If some1 spelt it karanicholus that would be wrong (i no my latinised name shouldnt have an h in it but by grandfather cant spell:P)--Slogankid 16:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Ethnomartyr[edit]

Although ethnomartyr is the most literal transliteration of ἐθνομάρτυρας, it's somewhat misleading, since the word means something more like national martyr rather than ethnic martyr. The distinction intended is between religious martyrs who died for their faith and national martyrs who died for their country. Compare Εθνικό Αρχαιολογικό Μουσείο which is usually translated as National Archaeological Museum, not Ethnic Archaeological Museum. (Some googling finds both "ethnomartyr" and "national martyr" are used in English in this context, although both are rare enough that it's hard to weigh their relative usage.) --Delirium 08:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Saint?[edit]

His commemoration appears in the calendars and books published by the Greeks, the Serbs and the Russians. To be a saint of one national Church is to be a saint of the entire Orthodox Church - and he appears in three! Ergo, he is a saint not only of the Greek Church. InfernoXV 02:33, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Look this doesn't matter that much, but I'll insist on removing the statement about the Roman Empire. It's just an abundant statement which only serves at confusing the readers. Someone who knows about medieval history will know already the relation between Rome, Byzantium and the Holy Roman Empire, so this won't help him. But to someone who is trying to learn this can only be confusing. Historians and civilisations have decided to differentiate Byzantium from the Roman Empire, without denying that it was its political continuation. Whether you like it or not that's how it's always been, and anyone who refuses to accept it is just on the POV side. Miskin 00:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

That is not "how it's always been." It was in the 19th century that biased Western historians began to widely use the term "Byzantine." It was always meant in a biased Western POV fashion. This bias is very well documented. To this day the Middle East called the Greeks "Romans" and Greece "Rome" or "Land of the Romans" and the entire rest of Europe "Franks." Funny to try to differentiate "Byzantium" from the rest of Roman history simply because of the supposed Hellenization of the Empire once the capitol was moved to Constantinople... because when Pagan Rome conquered the Greek City States in the centuries before Christ they were in turn conquered by Greek culture and became thoroughly Hellenized. This is a very clear, straight fact. Indeed, during the Pagan Roman occupation of the Holy Land in the time of Christ the Koine Greek language was the international language of it's day (a legacy of Alexander) and the Aramaic language of Jesus was Hellenistic Aramaic. It would be very difficult to try to separate the Roman Empire from it Hellenic heritage, even long before Christ. Thus, the Western POV is clearly evident in this article. Call it the Eastern Roman Empire if you must. Call it Byzantium. Call it the "Empire of the Greeks" as it's medieval contemporaries did (derogatory; Latin Catholic vs. Greek Orthodox bias of it's day, see: Great Schism), but the Western view must be balanced by the Eastern view. Otherwise we risk allowing Wikipedia to become a tool for propagandists.

As to the Sainthood of Constantine XI; please read this article written, perhaps ideally, by a Byzantine Catholic on the subject. He is most certainly considered a Saint (and National Hero of Greece): http://rumkatkilise.org/statusconstantineXI.htm --Nikoz78 (talk) 16:17, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Constantine was a Greek catholic, not an Orthodox. The Orthodox who believe him to have been a saint are in error.--131.220.75.84 (talk) 09:34, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Myth and music[edit]

Just a thought...The Greek composer Stamatis Spanoudalkis has produced an excellent suite of music entitled: The Marble King (I think...Unfortunately I've lost my copy!)It's theme is the fall of Constantinople and the idea that Constantine XI will return one day. Mickmct (talk) 15:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Date of birth[edit]

Hi there, This page marked the date of Constantine's birth as February 8, 1405, citing Nicol's The Immortal Emperor as a source. According to Runciman's The Fall of Constantinople 1453 and to the article on the emperor in the Encyclopaedia Britannica, he was rather born in 1404. I've taken the liberty of changing the date to 1404 from 1405 (two sources vs. one), but since there seems to be some divergence on the subject, feel free to argue the point further and change it back. Have a nice day! Hobbitte (talk) 07:45, 1 December 2009 (UTC)Hobbitte

I`ll change it back,since Runciman work is from 1965,while Nicol is from 1992.Also,ODB (from 1991) states that he was born in Constantinople,on 8 February 1405. (I have also some history book in serbian from 1989 with same date,but it`s not first class source for this.) CrniBombarder!!! Шумски Крст (†) 11:52, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Legend Misrepresented[edit]

The legend of Constantine XI being turned into marble is thus: that once the Hellenic people (Greeks) "recapture Constantinople" the last Roman/Byzantine Emperor will rise to rule a Byzantium reborn. The article used to reflect this fact. I understand that such a legend still has political concerns today, but that is the truth of this old legend; it makes little sense to reword such a legend just to downplay it's controversial nature. This is an encyclopedia. Period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikoz78 (talkcontribs) 15:28, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Prophecy[edit]

The ghost of Constantine XI IS prophesized to ride into the city (Constantinople/Istanbul) when Turkey becomes a Christian land again. I could find sources for that if you all insist on it, but can you please let me put that in and leave it there? -The Mysterious El Willstro 209.183.185.226 (talk) 04:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Somebody has since added a reference to what I was referring to, so I appreciate that. -The Mysterious El Willstro 209.183.186.32 (talk) 04:30, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Modern Statue[edit]

I'm pretty sure that statue is from Athens, not Mistras. I've seen it there myself and taken pictures of it. I'm not going to change it since I'm not sure if there is an identical statue in Mistras or not. -HawkeyE (talk) 05:53, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

There are two statues, one in Mistras, and one in front of the Athens Metropolitan Church (IIRC). They both look very much alike, but I cannot say whether they are identical. However, the statue in question is from Athens, as the original Flickr account suggests. Constantine 08:04, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

File:Constantine XI Palaiologos.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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