Talk:Coola

Naming Consistency

It had already been well-established by editors within this article and general Dragon Ball articles that going forward, universal names / spellings / etc. (read: the original Japanese titles, and not FUNimation-exclusive titles that those from areas outside of North America would be completely unfamiliar with) would be used throughout the article. If any of the anonymous IP editors post-Julian Grybowski would like to offer a valid reason why this consistency would need to be changed, I would love to hear their opinions. Otherwise, these changes are going to be rolled-back in due time. VegettoEX 22:00, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Reverted. I'll add referral links to the actual films if others would like to confer on the best way of doing so. As of now they link to the FUNimation dubbed property names of Cooler's Revenge & Return of Cooler. I suppose the original film names would redirect to those sites anyway, but eh.

On a lighter note, I screwed up twice on the movie links, as I have this nasty habit of spelling character names correctly. Sucks to be me, I know. Papacha 09:11, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

"Changling"

This is a completely made-up and un-official fan-term given to his and Freeza's race that appears absolutely nowhere in the original Japanese manga or anime. I excised it before even stumbling in on this discussion, so I s'pose you could say I agree that it does not belong. Maybe a mention as trivia within the article, but that's all. It needs to be asserted that "changeling" is totally non-canon. Papacha 08:53, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

The term Changlng isn't non-canon, it's EVERYWHERE on the net so if it is I'm pretty sure Akira Toriyama stated that they are Changlings somewhere in one of his interviews.

So is Dragonball AF, that doesn't mean it's legitimate. Voice of Treason 01:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Naming

Ok, I notice this article was changed from Coola to Cooler (Dragon ball, and likewise Freeza's page was changed to Frieza. Am I the only one who finds that inconsistent? The majority of DB articles use the original or manga translated names it seems. Also, this entire article uses Coola, so Cooler at the top is a little confusing. Coola used to let you search his name and come up directly on his page. Type Cooler and you get a page on refrigeration devices. Am I alone in thinking this change wasn't necessary (and likely fueled not so much by logic as by the "this is English Wiki so we must swear by FUNimation naming" philosphy some exhibit)? Onikage725 16:20, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I definitely think it should be under the "Coola" name. I mean, just look at the explanation of his name in the article... it's essentially anti-productive to KEEP it under the "Cooler" naming. I know there have been some edits lately that go back to including the "Cooler" spelling, and it's like no-one's even reading the article before they edit/contribute. And what the heck is with this "Baron" stuff...?! VegettoEX 14:51, 03 June 2006 (UTC)

Upon reading some of the back and forth over this debate on the other DBZ pages, I take issue with the argument that says "Wikipedia is an English site, and thus should prominently state the dub names for English users who are more familliar with them". I'm sorry to break this to some people, but Wikipedia is a WORLD WIDE encyclopedia of information meant for everyone of every language. And to reflect that it can be viewed in a number of different languages, English being only one of them. To place prominence on any one language as "more important than the rest" just reeks of arrogance. The English speaking world does not make up the majority of the industrialized world. It doesn’t even come close.

Now that we’ve established that this site is intended for more than one language, let’s establish something else; Dragon Ball is a very, very old manga/anime. It’s been around well before it was brought to U.S. shores, and it was a decade long worldwide phenomenon years before it was a two (at best three) year fad in the U.S. And Dragon Ball has been (more or less) faithfully translated in every major part of the world it was imported to, save the U.S. More people the world over are familiar with names like Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Piccolo Daimaou, and Mr. Satan, than they are with Krillin, Tien, King Piccolo, and Hercule (the French notwithstanding on that last one).

Simply put, it doesn’t make any sense to put prominence on a notoriously inaccurate, and much newer, translation of a work that is translated with much more consistency in every other part of the world, and has been for a long time prior. Likely since before most of its American audience was even born.

Curiously this phenomenon of disavowing an original work of fiction and placing prominence on an adaptation that takes great liberties with its source material remains largely a DBZ thing, at least here on Wikipedia. I mean let’s face it, you don’t see people arguing at humorously ridiculous length over whether to refer to Saruman as “Saruman” or “Aruman” on the Lord of the Rings sections of this site, or whether or not to place Arwen’s role in the Peter Jackson films or the actual books in higher prominence on her page. Just to name but one example.

In summation; the idea of a “prominent” language on a multi-language world wide source of information is narrow minded and doesn’t hold much water upon close scrutiny. In fact if the general tone of the posts made by the dissenting party against the removal of dub information from prominent placement in the DBZ Wiki sections (of some not all, not gonna name names) is anything to go by, then they come across as if they view Wikipedia to be more of a personal web space and a soapbox for their opinions rather than an objective source of information with the focus to be on accuracy, not popular opinion, especially not popular opinion from one lone corner of the world. Fuad Ramses 20:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Move

Cooler (Dragon Ball)→ Coola for reasons stated above. 95% of DB articles go by original source or Viz Manga. What sense is it to have two FUNimation mistranslations? It's inconsistent and more importantly incorrect, regardless of "how many English speaking fans" watched the anime adaptation on Toonami. Onikage725 14:30, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support. I have a little bit to say regarding this, so to keep this at one sentence, I'll post my further thoughts separately in the "Naming" section. Fuad Ramses 19:25, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• Support, per reasons stated by Onikage725, VegettoEX and myself on this and other pages. Papacha 19:30, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• Support, per the rational for the name spelling currently in use in the article under the Name Pun section. VegettoEX 22:47, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• Support, per nom. I'm against FUNImation's naming and plot reversions, though I wouldn't be averse to Whiskers the Wonder Cat. Voice of Treason 03:56, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Moved. —Nightstallion (?) 12:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Titles' & Names' Parenthesis: Translation vs FUNimation-Exclusive Version

Time and time again in this article, various readers/editors have switched back and forth between listing the accurate translation next to the Japanese movie titles, versus the FUNimation dub title corresponding to it. This has been expanded upon with the FUNimation dub term for the Coola Tokusentai being listed in parenthesis next to its heading. Thoughts on a standard? My preferences is (obviously) a translation, rather than a "reversioning". Alternate thoughts or implementations? VegettoEX 22:25, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I changed the titles to the English translations, since that's policy where available. This way, readers won't confuse the dub title for the actual translation, so it probably works out even better. Voice of Treason 07:46, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Cooler's Forms

In the movie Cooler's Revenge, Cooler states that the form you see is his third form and that his fourth form is the final form. Do they ever reveal his first two forms? User:Sasuke-kun27 10:58 p.m., 20 June 2006

It's a dub line. Complicate that with Freeza's transformations being more along the lines of "containment" of his true power (his original form is what's often called "final") and you see where someone might be confused with where Toei was going, even before FUNi stepped in. Coola's final stage is directly opposite of his brother's, as it's something new he's developed to go from his original body into a stronger & faster form. It's assumed he can, but there's no animated evidence.

You'll only see base Coola, his "Super Shredder meets technicolor iguana" über transformation, metal clones and finally the cyborg body he creates from scratch. Papacha 08:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The notes for Akira Toriyama's character design for Coola in the sixth daizenshuu literally reads (translated from Japanese), "Design for Coola, said to be Freeza's older brother. From the outset, he appeared in a body resembling Freeza's final form. The design for one more transformation was also drawn." Just figured I'd toss that out there. I'd dig up his literal dialogue from the movie concerning what he says about the form, but the DVD player is oh so far away... VegettoEX 22:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Wait wait, I'm pretty sure the line was that he was in his third transformation. I'd have to rewatch, but I remember thinking they got it right in the dub. Form 4 is the third change. Onikage725 09:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that much is true, but I don't think they even bring up the number of transformations in the sub aside from the one more time thing, which is what we're talking about (or w-what I'm talkin' about anyway... <_< >_>). Just the usual "NOW YOU WILL EXPERIENCE TRUE HELL OH HO HO" Freeza and his folk are *so* fond of. Hold up.

Yep. Here it is.

Coola: "Hmph, you do as well as I expected. Enough to have defeated my brother. However, the real hell begins now! Once you witness this hell, I will show you no mercy, no matter how you scream! Not until I've torn you to bits.....One time more."

Goku: "?"

Coola: "I am able to transform myself one more time than my brother."

Goku: "What?"

Coola: "You should consider this an honor. You will be the first to see my ultimate transformation, and the last!"

ZOMFG HUGE HUGE HUGE~!1!! (thanks, Buttlord GT)

Goku: ("Incredible... his ki is even greater than Freeza's!)"

Coola: "So, shall we begin?"

So - "one more time" implies he can revert just as Freeza can; it's just never animated or seen. Papacha 09:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

And while it's a bit of a tangent, I really do dig Coola's dub voice quite a bit; Andrew Chandler did a bang-up job compared to some. But when you're paired up with perhaps the best seiyuu in the DBZ cast it's a tough road to hoe regardless. Papacha 09:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh yea, I know the dub changed the line during that scene: Ready? Steady? Rock!

Cooler: Well well, not bad, rather impressive actually. Yes. Frieza...I can see how he'd have trouble with you. My brother was a pest, I would've killed him myself sooner or later. He was always trying to beat me. Trying to prove that he was the best and he definately had the edge. But then it happened. I transformed! As you know, I'm in the third transformed state, but I found a forth beyond it!

Goku: What??

Cooler: You should feel privileged. You'll be the first one to witness this form! First you will see, then you will die!!!!"

Cooler does his thang while I reflect on the X-Men arcade game and yell "Welcome to DIE!!!"

Goku: Oh man.. He's.. Huge!!"

Cooler: Hahahaha.. Yes, now time to die!! YOU'RE MINE!!"

Hmm, once again FUNimation tones down evil sadist-speak so that they can further explore their own fanon theories. The exchange was pretty cool though, and as you said, Chandler rocked out as "Cooler". I have to say that while I MUCH prefer Ryuusei Nakao's Freeza to Linda Young's "Frieza" (much more fitting as Genkai on Yu Yu Hakusho), when it came to Coola I thought...could you have maybe varied the voice just a little? I mean "Shall we begin" might as well have been a sound clip lifted off of Freeza after his big power up. Onikage725 14:48, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Cooler

The name should be Cooler it is the english name and this is the english wikipedia if you wannt the original name go to the japenese wikipedia Dragon Emperor 06:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yay for feedback & opinions!... though we already did the "consensus thing". I'm not against doing so again in the future, but this has previously been put to a vote by editors of this article, as seen above. Please don't change it so obligingly. Papacha 07:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow that's word for word what a certain other user always says to me...

Anyway, Dragon Emperor, this was discussed and decided upon. Feel free to debate it if you wish (that's the point of these talk pages, no?), but as Papacha said...don't just ignore that consensus. Dragon Emperor, you also need to be careful when chagning names. It looks as though you were putting the text in word and did a replace-all with Cooler. Doing so screws up image tags and also made the section on his name utterly nonsensical. You can't just do a blanket change like that. it may sound tedius but in the future if you need to do that on an article, each change needs to be case by case. And both of you, be mindful of the three-revert rule. Onikage725 09:28, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Otay! Even I appreciate a warning now and then. ^_^ Papacha 09:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Just lookin' out for you two! After the Majin Buu situation, everyone's jumpy about the prospect of revert wars. Onikage725 10:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The name really needs to be Cooler, not Coola. In an ENGLISH SPEAKING WEBSITE, why not use the English name? His name is Coolerin the American version, and that is how it appears in the movies, games, etc. This problem is all over the DBZ pages. There name need to be the English version. Wikipedia is about facts and true statements. Well, calling Cooler the name Coola isn't correct. Buster Sword 23:57, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Buster Sword

Actually, no. The reasons for why the correct name of Coola should be used have already been given, here and on the Freeza article. Coola is the name. That's the name that everyone has agreed upon. That's the name we're using.

Daishokaioshin 04:14, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, Coola is not the name. The official dub name is Cooler. It doesn't matter if people don't like the Dub name. Until Funimation makes a big announcement telling people to start calling Cooler Coola, it isn't his name. In an encyclopedia, we have to use the official TRANSLATED name. Cooler is that name. Not Coola. I don't own any Coola's Revenge DVD. I own Cooler's Revenge. I've never played as anyone named Coola in Budokai Tenkaichi, but I've played as COOLER. Even if fans like reffering to him as Coola, we need to be official here. People on this site are always complaining about fans not writing things as they should be in an encyclopedia. If we continue using those names, we are improperly using this site. Buster Sword 21:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)Buster Sword

His authorized, "official TRANSLATED" English name is Coola. In the subtitles of the Japanese cut of the film distributed by the "official" U.S. licensor, FUNimation. On the other hand, who you're talking about is "Cooler", his name in the dub version. Or do you only use FUNimation as a resource when it suits your purposes?

And it wasn't moved on a whim, either. Only things similar to Pokemon are listed in the dub way, as there's no big outside resource - manga and subtitled work - to the West, unlike, say, Yu-Gi-Oh!, which does have that additional frame of reference. Usagi Tsukino isn't listed as "Serena", Coola isn't listed as "Cooler", and FUNimation doesn't need to make a "big announcement": it's right there on your "Cooler's Revenge" DVD, the part you haven't watched. Voice of Treason 23:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I watch the subtitled original, but that doesn't mean that it should be official. All it is is the direct translation. How many nonjapanese refer to their friends as John-chan for example? Many people only know what Coola is because people like you insist on using the name. By your logic, there should be no Bowser article. The Mario villain should have his article named Koopa if we used your logic. That is the original Japanese name. It's Bowserbecause that is the English name. Someone posted earlier about how we can't use the name Cooler because that is favoring the English language. Well, calling him Coola is favoring Japanese. Buster Sword 16:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)Buster Sword

I'd say bring it to a vote, but we already did that. Seriously, this has been done to death, and the consensus is clear, the reasoning is clear and laid out within the talk pages and articles here and on Freeza, and this horse is dead and buried. Why dig the poor thing up just to further beat it? Let it rest. Onikage725

Oh, and to answer your question, I know plenty of fans who know Coola more than Cooler. Ya know why? Cuz FUNi took foreeeeever to put the movies out, and with a wonderful resource like the internet, most fans at the time already knew who "Koola" was. Just like PLENTY of fans were familiar with golden-haired super-warriors back when we were stuck in the Raditz-Recoome loop of doom. Onikage725

Using an "honorific" as a counter-argument is a wash; no-one's proposing Coola-sama. And you're not following the text, VoT's reasoning behind Wiki listing names - Satoshi/Ash Ketchum; Koopa/Bowser vs. Usagi Tsukino/Serena; Katsuya Jonouchi/Joey Wheeler was given. Harping that it's "not English" is a falsehood, as it's what's provided in the non-reversioned film (the one where Cooler doesn't blow up planets instead of conquering them, cares not for killing his bro 'cause of doting Daddy, and realizes blowing up the sun is *prolly* a lil' beyond his limits as he's being shoved into it) by Steve Simmons. That argument only holds water if someone changed the article to any one of his alternate names (or worse, クウラ) after being given the proper English equivalent. And between the remaining two, the current lay-out is accepted at WP:Anime.

"I watch the subtitled original, but that doesn't mean that it should be official."... urk. Papacha 22:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Yea, problem with that statement is that it is official. Some people seem to say unnofficial and mean "what everyone saw on CN." Except in this case, I don't even think they played it on TV, did they? Onikage725

His two movies were the last new DBZ ones aired in Toonami's movie schedule. You can see the promos here. Voice of Treason 06:54, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Wowza, Toonami's still around? I thought they scrubbed it for Meguzi and shifted all anime into Adult Swim...golly. Onikage725

Cooler's Strength

Hey, this has always bugged me. Cooler is supossed to be WAY stronger than Frieza's 100% when hes at Final Form, but he can't even make SSJ Goku flinch. Frieza was able to do considerable damage. Is this a plot hole or somthing? KojiDude (talk) 06:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

The Freeza Saga was still airing when this movie first came out, it debuted right before Freeza "kills" Goku and Gohan returns to the battlefield; they couldn't have a Super Saiyan be thrown around so easily in his first scene in a feature film. And it's only a fifty minute movie, there's only so much time to play around, unlike the eternal Goku/Freeza fight.

You can fanwank it by saying Goku just got way stronger after the fight with Freeza, giving him enough of a boost to fight his "stronger" brother. Voice of Treason 06:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Well look at it this way. Since the movie came out during the Freeza fight, they didn't know where Toriyama would take things by the point this film would have happened. From a strictly timeline sense this movie could happen, and it's biggest problem is Goku's reluctance to transform. By this point in the canon series, Goku had control of the transformation and was stronger than Trunks, who himself so totally outclassed both Mecha Freeza and King Cold as to make the two of them look like jokes. So, hardships with making the change aside, Goku by this point was MUCH stronger than he was when he fought Freeza, and knew Shunkan Idou (which again, the creators of the movie didn't know about, having projected a year or so ahead without knowing what Toriyama would introduce). Onikage725

Do you want this article merged?

A lot of articles on characters in Dragon Ball have been merged to relating lists. Coola is a movie character, therefore not canon to the original manga, but characters that are have been merged to realting lists. Post your views. Uglyguy2006

Whether a character was in the manga or not doesn't determine if they get an article. It's based solely on notability (or at least I hope it is with Dragon Ball articles, since it should be). Coola is a notable character as he's been featured in two films (three if including the OVA), more than a handful of video games, and I believe made a brief appearance in Dragon Ball GT. // DecaimientoPoético 20:28, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

The same (To some extent) could be said about characters like Vegetto but I notice THEY don't have an article. Besides, Cooler in GT was an animation error or something. MightyKombat 07:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Vegetto is different, as he appeared very breifly in the series. He doesn't have a lot of information other than a small plot summary and a list of attacks, whereas Coola actually has things to note. // DecaimientoPoético 05:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

So I guess it doesn't matter if Vegetto had more screentime then. Cooler only managed 2 movies whereas Vegetto managed a good number of episodes. MightyKombat 07:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Screen time doesn't matter. As I said earlier, he has very little worth mentioning, hence why he doesn't need his own article. And why is Vegetto the main object of comparrison here? It was decided Coola keeps his article and Vegetto gets merged. Just drop the whole discussion; there's no reason to argue over what's already been. // DecaimientoPoético 07:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

It is decided. Coola stays. Uglyguy2006 It has NOT been decided. The discussion is currently taking place on the WP:DBZ talk page. Voice your opinions there, concerning the futures of this article and of the Broly article. Have a good day.162.83.167.202 09:04, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

There is another movie villain that deserves a bigger mention though: Garlic Jr. Anime-only or not, not only did he have a movie but he had his VERY OWN SAGA! MightyKombat 12:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Name change

i changed all the coola's in it to cooler since this is an english wikipedia Legaiarocks 20:12, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Please note the article name before making such edits next time. // DecaimientoPoético 21:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)