Talk:Coonan Cross Oath

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Letterof MorDionysius I(1759-1809) to Pope Pius VI[edit]

The recent study conducted by István Perczel[1] ,University of Tübingen,Central European University[History of Kerala Christianity on the Basis of Newly Found Documents: Methodological Challenges and Possible Answers] shows that Mar Dionysius I of malankara send a historical letter to The same pope requesting permission to join catholic church Letter of MorDionysius I(1759-1809) to Pope Pius VI, ErnakulamMAP Syr7, f. 516v-517r Page 65,66,67[2]

A detail from the Syriacversion of the letter of Mor Dionysius I(Mar ThomaVI) to Pope Pius VI (1778 AD) •“After the fact that they behaved despitefully and jeopardisedthis plan, I asked the illustrious Joseph Kariatty, from Alangad, student in the school for the Propagation of the Faith in Rome, apostolic preacher in India, <with compunction> in my heart, in many tearsand in distress <…> the Saviourmay grant that I end my erring. When he saw my compunction, <…> he was inflamed by my tears, and he promised in truth <…> that “I will go to Rome and <pray that> nothing happens to me on the way and I will be anxious about presenting your supplication before the feet of our Lord, the holy Pope. For it has not been heard that the Church would abandon a penitent man.”Therefore I trusted his great love <…> because he took my cause upon his shoulders in order to bring it to Rome upon my behalf

This single evidence is enough to refute this claim "By the Father, Son and Holy Ghost that henceforth we would not adhere to the Franks, nor accept the faith of the Pope of Rome"

suggested Revision[edit]

"On january 1653 priests and people assembled in the church of Our Lady at Mattanceri, and standing in front of a cross and lighted candles swore upon the holy Gospel that they would no longer obey Garcia, and that they would have nothing further to do with the jesuits they would recognise the archdeacon as the governor of their church. This is the famous oath ofthe ‘ Koonen Cross ` (the open-air Cross which stands outside the church at Mattnchery.

The Thomas Christians did not at any point suggest that they wished to separate themselves from the pope. They could no longer tolerate the arrogance of Garcia. And their detestation of the jesuits, to whose overbearing attitude and lack of sympathy they attributed all their troubles,breathes through all the documents ofthe time. But let the pope send them a true bishop not a jesuit, and they will be pleased to receive and obey him."

|source = A History of Christianity in India: The Beginnings to AD 1707 By Stephen Neill page 326-327+Tavancoor State Manual

Better rename it to protestant propaganda oath By the Father, Son and Holy Ghost that henceforth we would not adhere to the Franks, nor accept the faith of the Pope of Rome(Ref October 1822, Letter from Dionysious to the Church Missionary Society.)

its just an attempt to please the protestants (in all most all records its like they will not acept paulist(Jesuits).and funny thing is that )and funny thing is that the last East syrian bishops were Catholics (with the faith of rome in your words). If the revolt was actually against the pope then why there is no protest at the time of chaldean catholic church formation in Ad 1550 ?( Bishop Mar Joseph (AD 1555) was the brother of chaldean catholic patriarch of babylon)From all these its clear that the oath was against Jesuits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.206.46.146 (talk) 16:35, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Huge dispute on historical claims It's unfortunate that no one challenges the blatant whitewash concerning the historical association of St. Thomas Christians with the wider church. In the early days of Christianity, there were three great spheres of influence. Rome in the West, Alexandria in Africa, and Antioch in the East. It was understood that the bishop of Antioch would have the prerogative in the East. Even after the Persians fell into Nestorianism, the Antiochian Church maintained a "Maphriyono" of "Catholicose" for those adhering to the true faith. After Chalcedon, the Oriental churches were isolated, but remained vast despite persecution. It is this "Eastern" church that was in India from the beginning - St. Thomas the Apostle, an Aramaic speaking Jew, was it's first missionary. To deny this "West Syriac" influence completely is appalling. The Chaldean East Syrian Church certainly had/has a presence, but not by any means exclusive .

Not your oath — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malankarnasrani (talkcontribs) 18:19, 10 September 2011 (UTC) The oath was under the leadership of the Archdeacon/Malankara Mooppen Thomas Kathanar. It was not just against 'a part' of the Roman Catholic church evidenced by the fact that Thomas Kathanar did not reconcile subsequently and that the Malankara church threw away the Roman yoke and the Pope's supremacy under his leadership. Those who remained loyal to the Archdeacon remained loyal to the Oath. Those who capitulated for whatever reasons, for all practical purposes went back on the oath. Whats funny is that some people imagine that Catholicism was even heard of in Malankara before Gama landed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malankarnasrani (talkcontribs) 18:12, 10 September 2011 (UTC)


Coonen Cross OathCoonan Cross Oath


A History of Christianity in India: The Beginnings to AD 1707 By Stephen Neill,Page 319 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.207.197.132 (talk) 08:00, 14 September 2011 (UTC)


Coonan Cross Oath was organized under the leadership of Thomas (Itty) Cattanar. The stand of Thomas Cattanar shows that he was standing against the Roman Catholicism and the Jesuits. It is believed that Thomas Cattanar had received ordination from Mor Ahattulla of Antioch at Madras on his way of pilgrimage to the tomb of St. Thomas. Most of the people in Malankara were not aware of the split of Nestorian Catholicate with the Patriarchate of Antioch and continued to receive the bishops from the Nestorian bishops until the Oath. Both people of Malankara and the Patriarch of Antioch knew all the time that they were under the patriach of Antioch.

The Oath was not against a foreign reign as can be seen that Thomas Cattanar, who led the Oat, stood with Patriarchate of Antioch which headquartered in The Middle East. Thus the Oath was against the Roman Catholics and the Jesuits. It is also logic to think that people in Malankara will not reject the Roman Catholics and all on a sudden join a totally new church which was unheard to them before or was so popular like Roman Catholic church at that time. Thus, it is logical to believe people of Malankara had connection with the Patriarch of Antioch before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.115.138.80 (talk) 17:28, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

History of the church by E.M Philip shows that people in Malankara although received Nestorian bishops, were under the impression that church in Malankara were under the Patriach of Antioch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.115.138.80 (talk) 17:31, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Merge[edit]

Coonan Cross Oathcan be merged to Coonen Cross Oath

Tinucherian 09:19, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I've re-directed the page per suggestion. See the details. Thanks. --Avinesh Jose  T  04:20, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Name[edit]

I wonder why "C" was selected to start the name instead of "K"? Koonan Cross seems more natural and is the natural choice of most Indian-English speakers. I'm a bit tired of reverting when I really don't agree with this spelling. Student7 (talk) 18:08, 4 March 2010 (UTC)