Talk:Cork (barony)

Moved from User talk

I like most of what you did to the article. One question that remains in my mind is the nature of the relationship between the municipal city and the current legal area under the jurisdiction of Cork City Council. What is the overlay with the two baronies? Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:15, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

The municipal boundary became the county borough boundary. See OSI map 6-inch (Municipal) and 25-inch (Co. Boro) layers. This was the area under the jurisdiction of the Corporation, now the City Council. Legally one is the successor to the other. As regards changes in the physical area, we need to distinguish two periods:

• 1840 to 1898: The municipal boundary was not expanded during this time (Dáil debates Vol.215 c.2088). If it had been, I expect that the barony of Cork would have been reduced to exclude any land that had been ceded to the city. See C.3092-II pp.v-viii from 1881:

  The present boundary of the borough of the city of Cork was fixed by the Municipal Corporations Act, 1840...the Corporation had considered ... the boundaries of the city, and agreed certain extensions on the north-west, south-west, and south-east as desirable, while they thought that part of the north-eastern portion...had better be separated from the city and added to the county. ... The deputation [of the county Grand Jury] asked for a recommendation that if portions of the barony of Cork be now added to the city, the barony should be dissolved and absorbed by the the adjoining baronies.

• 1898 onwards: The city has certainly been expanded during this time (eg 1955 and 1965). I don't think the barony definitions have been revised accordingly. Thus the administrative city of Cork includes all of the barony of Cork City and part of the barony of Cork.

BTW, I do not know when it became correct to speak of the "Barony of Cork City". The counties corporate were not strictly baronies, though enumerated with them for some purposes. Maybe baronies coterminous with the county boroughs were formally defined after 1898 but before the county boroughs' areas were altered; but I don't know when or how that was done. jnestorius^(talk) 00:30, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Revert

I have reverted the recent changes by LaurelLodged:

• While I continue to disagree with the copy-paste "Historical context" section, I have not pressed this point in most cases pending input from a third party. However, in the case of the barony of Cork, the case seems unanswerable. The barony was formed in 1840, arguably dating back to 1608 at the earliest. Nothing to do with Normans or Gaelic túath.
• The Barony of Cork City did not form the medieval heart of the city. It was not created till long after the medieval period, and is far larger than the medieval heart of the city. Compare 1545 and 1832

jnestorius^(talk) 11:42, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:13, 21 November 2011 (UTC)