Talk:Craigslist

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Domain name registration date check on 20 October 2014[edit]

A whois for craigslist.org shows "Created on 1997-09-11" but the Wikipedia page says the domain was registered in 1996 and the web site launched then. Am I reading whois wrong, or is the page wrong? JustinHall (talk) 00:49, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Good point. The statement about the registration date is not sourced. Unfortunately, looking at the whois registry is not reliable, that's raw data that needs to be interpreted by a reliable source, ideally as secondary one. So I've added a {{fact}} tag to encourage somebody to look this up. It's possible that our article is just wrong. It's also possible that Craig registered the domain 1996 as described, and then let it lapse, reregistered it, transferred it, etc., again in 1997, or that the whois records worked differently in those days. As a hint, anything on Wikipedia without a citation might be wrong. Anything with a citation might be wrong too, but at least you can check the citation to see if it' supports the information, and whether it's believable. Thanks for pointing that out. - Wikidemon (talk) 06:15, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

What happened to the "Criagslist and crime" article?[edit]

Back in 2010, during the Phillip Markoff murder case, an article was created that logged murders that were facilitated through a method whereby a criminal lured people with a Craigslist ad. There were many such cases at the time, and the data was online in Wikipedia. Then there was an editorial conflict, in which people (probably working for Craigslist) tried to get the material all removed. For a while, a much abbreviated form of the list was available online. Now, 5 years later, it is gone.

I am asking about it because yet another Craigslist-facilitated crime has occurred (a women beat and stabbed another woman who was 7 months pregnant in an attempt to steal her viable fetus, but the baby died; the victim is expected to recover, the suspect is in jail).

I had worked on the Markoff page and had been part of the unsuccessful attempt to maintain the "Crigslist crimes" page-list without engaging in "Craigslist shaming" but i see now that it has all been removed. I view this as yet another successful attempt by a corporate or governmental "editor" to astro-turf Wikipedia.

Meanwhile, a search at google shows other sites maintaining such historical lists with no trouble.

I am not only putting the focus on murder; see this 2011 article:

http://www.ibtimes.com/craigslist-cesspool-crime-study-270401

with this quote:

"Classifieds site Craigslist has been linked with 330 crimes, 12 murders and 105 robberies or assaults in the United States last year [2010] due to anonymous interactions on the site, says a new study."

Then we have this article from 2015:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/craigslist-killings/

with this quote:

"There Have Been At Least 45 'Craigslist Killings' Since 2009: Report"

And here is another article from 2015:

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/study-show-spike-metro-murders-linked-craigslist/nkZ7Y/

which includes this interesting quote:

"A Florida-based consulting firm's latest report linked 84 killings to Craigslist transactions"

and this:

"Police say conducting Craigslist transactions in law enforcement parking lots will also cut down on the number of other violent crimes they see, like robberies, linked to Craigslist."

Finally, here is a list with names, photos, and dates, as well as arrest, conviction, and sentencing reports; the data would need cross-crecking and verification, but it is a good place to start from.

http://lawstreetmedia.com/killers-craigslist/

"Law Street identified 58 murderers and 45 murder victims connected to Craigslist postings through last June [2014]. Twenty-two murder cases are still pending. The oldest pending case dates to 2012, and eight are from 2014, indications that the killings continue. Craigslist did not reply to multiple inquiries."

I think it is time to re-examine the idea of a "Caigslist and crime" article. I do not believe it should be part of the Craigslist article, but rather a "See also" It is a topic that has been consistently in the news, year after year for at least six years now, and as the number of murders mounts (not even counting the robberies, beatings, and attempted murders) it is something people are asking about online and in street life, hence there should be an article on it.

catherine yrnwode (not logged in) 75.101.104.17 (talk) 00:39, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

By the same logic, we would also need articles about Telephones and crime, Newspaper classified advertisements and crime, Door to door salesmen and crime, Fliers posted on telephone poles and crime, Telegraphs and crime, etc.
There is nothing unique or special about crime occurring through Craigslist. Crime occurs through any viable medium, including on subways, walking on the sidewalk, etc. Singling Craigslist out for this seems patently unfair.
No, I do not have any interest in Craigslist, personally, financially, etc. Though I do admire how such a tiny organization has such a profound effect on the way we do many ordinary everyday tasks, especially on the West Coast. —EncMstr (talk) 05:01, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Previous discussions of "Craigslist and crime"[edit]

These links lead to archived material from this talk page about "Craigslist and crime."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Craigslist/Archive_1#Significant_events.2C_controversies.2C_criticism_-_propose_to_move_some_content_to_a_new_article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Craigslist/Archive_1#FBI:_Craigslist_Used_In_Murder-For-Hire_Case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Craigslist/Archive_1#Murders_are_trivial.3F.3F.3F

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Craigslist/Archive_1#Addition_to_section_Controversies_and_illegal_activities_by_users

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Craigslist/Archive_1#Craigslist_controversies_and_illegal_activities_by_users_AfD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Craigslist/Archive_1#Merger_proposal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Craigslist/Archive_1#.22Incidents.22_should_be_removed

During those earlier discussions, the most persuasiva argument against having such material in Wikipedia seems to have been that terms like "Craigslist killings" were part of a technophobic media circus and that we, as technophilics, know better than to fall for the hysteria. As time has gone on, however, it is quite obvious that this argument is baseless: Craigslist is still being used by killers, robbers, and other predtors as a way to lure victims into unprotected spaces. If we take only the murders (and i would not -- i think the entire range of crimes should be addressed), and the middle-of-the-road estimate of 45 Craigslist-facilitated murders from the beinning of 2009 through the first quarter of 2015, i think you will see why i believe that it is time that Wikipedia acknowledges the fact and creates an article on the phenomenon.

catherine yronwode (not logged in 75.101.104.17 (talk) 00:51, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

No thank you. It is an observation, not an argument BTW. The argument is that it is not relevant, noteworthy, or of due weight in relation to the subject matter. That media sources are always drawing a connection between X and rime, where X is almost anything but is often a new company, group of people, or innovation, is merely an observation as to why the subject gets a lot of media coverage despite being unencyclopedic. I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have an article or some other organizational method to connect people to all of the notable crimes that involved Craigslist, but rather arguing against the suggestion that there is a meaningful nexus. - Wikidemon (talk) 08:29, 20 March 2015 (UTC)