Talk:Crime in Canada
|WikiProject Canada||(Rated B-class, Mid-importance)|
- 1 lowest crime in 40 years
- 2 Race Section
- 3 Sources
- 4 Better Treatment of the Poor
- 5 Biased
- 6 Major Rewrite Required
- 7 Liberal Bias
- 8 Why so many US comparisons?
- 9 Guns
- 10 A few criticisms
- 11 Rape stats
- 12 New Stats
- 13 POV Tag
- 14 Other countries
- 15 how bout some comparisons with other nations
- 16 Title of the racial factors section
- 17 Did history of systematic police corruption and involvement in organized crime exist in Canada (as in Australia)?
- 18 lowest crime in 40 years
lowest crime in 40 years
The most important thing to take away from the article is that Canada has far less police per population than the U.S. There is way too much police presence in the U.S. I was just recently in Vancouver and you never saw the cops until 2am. Weed, prostitutes, etc. all over, but yet no crime problem and I never felt threatened or unsafe. In America, if I'm on the streets where those activities are going on I would be mugged, assautled, etc. in less than 5 minutes. Definitley a different culture in our neighbors from the North. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 15:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
220.127.116.11, What you edited did not contribute to the page in the least. Can someone please revert the spam he posted? (Sorry I don't know how. :oops:) Fr0 04:14, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
"For the year 2003, per 100,000 population, Canada had 8,530 crimes, and the U.S. 4,267. For crimes of violence, 958 vs. 523. For property crimes, 4,275 vs. 3,744."
-  (the second question down features the quote and related information)
Those are supposedly the statistics of www.statcan.ca compared to the U.S. Department of Justice. So... which version is right? Does Canada have more or less crime than the U.S.?
- I don't think Roger Ebert is a great source for information on international crime statistics. The numbers he cites are measuring two different things. The Canadian numbers refer to all crimes found in the Criminal Code of Canada. In the United the DoJ tacks changes in crime rates using the Uniform Crime Reports Crime Index put toghether by the FBI. This index contains only seven crimes:
- motor vehicle theft
- aggravated assault
- forcible rape
- The vast majority of crimes thus do not appear in these statistics (e.g. no drug crimes, no drunk driving, no vandalism). The numbers are useful for tracking year to year changes in the U.S. crime rate, but they are useless for international comparisons. - SimonP 16:19, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)
- Thanks for clearing that up. (Roger Ebert may not be an authority on crime statistics, but he still has the good sense to check with those who are. So let's keep the Roger Ebert love/like flowing...) But this article still reeks of anti-Americanism:
- "Canada wants to avoid becoming more like the United States..." (Thanks for the editorial. We get it. Canada hates America.)
- "Others have argued the difference is rooted in Canada's less violent history." (What study qualifies this?)
- "Canada also has a much higher rate of arson. Some of this may be connected to Canadians being more likely to report property crimes to police than Americans." (ibid.)
- "The United States has vastly higher rates of arrest for drug related crimes." (The word ‘vastly’ doesn’t tell me a whole lot – not exactly encyclopedia-worthy.)
- And there are several other examples...
- I’d like to know where the author(s) of this article found this information, so they can tell me how to substantiate it. Maybe a Brit, or some other neutral third party, should rework this article. Until then, I'm going to put the Attention tag back up... I'm sorry if that offends anyone (I really am - not being sarcastic anywhere in my comment), but I'd just like this to be as fair as possible, since it's an educational tool. AvestanHamster
Thanks, SimonP. I appreciate the much-needed clarifications [and the removal of some of the more inflammatory elements]. :) AvestanHamster 17:19, Nov. 24, 2004 (CST)
"Canada's crime rate is close to the average of Western Europe. Canada has slightly more crime per capita than Japan."<---why is this two sentence thing here? and whats the source? Is it Wiki sourcing itself? If it is, that seems kinda stupid...
"Canada's crime rate is close to the average of Western Europe, lower than some nations (United Kingdom, Sweden) but higher than others (Spain, France). Canada has several times more crime per capita than Japan."
"Canada's crime rate is close to the average of Western Europe. Canada has slightly more crime per capita than Japan."
Almost word for word what is said on about.com, except one is clearly exaggerating. ('Slightly' and 'Several times'). Which is right? Did about.com steal the information from here and exaggerate it in favour of Canada or vice versa? There seems to be an awful lot of bias in this article, especially in the comparisons section. If this quote has been altered, the legitimacy of the entire article needs to be questioned. --18.104.22.168 21:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- Here's Statistics Canada raw data instead of the 'lowest in blah' http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2011001/article/11523/tbl/tbl02a-eng.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 20:29, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
"Although aboriginal persons make up 3.6% of Canada's population, they account for more than 20% of Canada's prison population. The prevalance of aboriginal persons incacerated in Canada is thus 3x the number per capita of incarcerated African-Americans in the United States of America." -I fail to see how this is a relevant comparison. There are many aboriginal people in the united states, and I'd hardly say that Canada's Aboriginals are in the same situation as America's African Americans. Should this be deleted? Chazzout! 07:13, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
- It is there because the large representation of America's black people in crime statistics is commonly commented on (51% of homicides from 11% of the population, according to Crime in the US) and seen as a significant piece of America's crime picture. Canada's aboriginal population being three times more likely than America's black people of committing crimes is noteworthy if nothing else. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 01:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
The article looks good, except that it lacks sources, something that is essential in articles like this. Adding external links does not qualify as "sourcing". --A Sunshade Lust 21:23, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
FYI, I recognized part of the "Statistics" section quotes the same statistics as are found in the book "Criminal Law" 3rd Edition written by Professor Kent Roach of the University of Toronto, published in 2004 by Irwin Law. I have put a citation in.. if anyone wants to correct the style feel free.
-- User:hairytoad2005 October 4, 2006
According to the UN 2000 International Crime Victims Survey, which is quoted in numerous European government reports on crime, including this one from the British Home Office: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb1203.pdf (page 17), Canada's crime rate is higher than that of the U.S. in all four major categories: Overall, Contact Crime (i.e. Violent Crime), Car Theft, and Burglary.
Why is there such a large statistical discrepancy between the statisitcs published by the Canadian government and that of the UN?
Better Treatment of the Poor
I find this section too editorial. The phrases "better" and "fair distribution of wealth" violate NPOV and there are no sources for this information.
This "article" screams with bias in favor of Canada. Why is it even on Wikipedia? There are spelling errors within, lack of any citation, and a lack of factual statistics.
Actually, maybe it is because canada is a generally non violent country... and most of the articles on wikipedia have spelling errors and no citations.
Agree with the above poster, seems to me that every time an article comes out in which some country is better than the States (in any way shape or form) someone yells 'NPOV!'. 188.8.131.52 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
If it makes any difference, I came to the page looking specifically for a comparison of crime [statistics] in Canada to crime [statistics] the U.S. The countries DO neighbor each other, and thus a comparison of the two is not totally out of place (maybe stats for Mexico should be added for balance, though it doesn't technically 'border' Canada). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 03:02, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Major Rewrite Required
This article is in need of a complete overhaul. Much of the information presented here is completely incorrect -- despite the claims of the "Better Treatment of the Poor" section, Finland, Norway and Sweden have among the HIGHEST crime rates in the world. Additionally, Canada has a higher violent crime rate (especially assault) than the U.S., and a higher overall crime rate (although, despite what the article claims, it is lower than that of the U.K. and higher than that of Portugal). The Windsor-Detroit comparison is totally irrelevent, as it ignores the relative population density of the two cities. -- user:Spock 00:35, 22 July 2006 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs)
- You "user:Spock" also added to Crime in Sweden that Sweden has among the highest crime rates of the developed world. Please give some references to such statements, as I have never encountered them before.
- Fred-Chess 15:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- "The Windsor-Detroit comparison is totally irrelevent, as it ignores the relative population density of the two cities."
- There is no proof that population density and crime rate are linked in any way. Maybe you shouldn't comment on things you obviously know nothing about or at least provide some evidence for your ridiculous claims. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 07:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC).
- Good grief "user:Spock", I'm astounded to learn that "Canada has a higher violent crime rate (especially assault) than the US." A legitimate source citation for that jaw dropping new information would be greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 13:28, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The higher violent crime rate in Canada is a result of how the two countries define violent crime. IN the US, basically anything less than aggravated assault is not considered to be a violent crime. In Canada, simply punching someone in the stomache, even just one time, is considered a violent crime. Basically, for a crime to labeled as violent in the US, some form of serious bodily harm needs to occur. In Canada, simple assault not causing bodily harm or serious injury is still listed as a violent crime. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:03, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
29-Feb-08. Facts are facts. The Pew Center on the States report (http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/uploadedFiles/One%20in%20100.pdf) was just released. One out 100 Americans is in prison. In time, people get released, so in actuality 1 in 75 may be currently or has been in prison. Maybe it's worse. As an American that's scary188.8.131.52 (talk) 18:31, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
This article was obviously written by an extreme left-wing liberal. A neutral party needs to re-write the entire article.
What is an extreme left-wing liberal? The only Liberal I know who played hockey is Ken Dryden and he was a goalie. I do agree the entire article needs to be re written with less commentary and more direct statistics. Here is an example for 2006: Source: The Geographic Reference Report 2007 (3/2007)
Crime Rates - Selected North American Cities (per 100,000 population)
Cities Homicides Robberies Baltimore, MD 43.5 638.5 Detroit, MI 42.1 596.2 Washington, DC 35.8 552.3 Atlanta, GA 25.8 724.6 Philadelphia, PA 22.2 657.4 Dallas, TX 20.1 607.5 Miami, FL 17.9 614.5 Chicago, IL 15.5 552.0 Minneapolis, MN 14.1 597.5 San Francisco, CA11.6 399.9 Boston, MA 10.5 418.6 Vancouver, BC 3.0 149.0 Toronto, ON 2.0 108.5 Hamilton, ON 2.0 39.0 Montreal, QC 1.5 147.5 Ottawa, ON 1.5 88.0 Sudbury, ON 1.0 53.0 Guelph, ON 1.0 60.0
The numbers speak for themselves. It would be interesting and much more helpful to see these kinds of simple to understand statistics for European and other world cities listed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 06:42, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
The only thing these numbers speak is "STRAW MAN". Homicide and robbery are one small part of violent crime and the terms are not interchangeable. Why not report the overall violent crime rate of different countries? Are rapes, assaults, etc not important enough for consideration or is it that these statistics would counter your world view and therefore must remain unspoken? This article is one of the worst on Wikipedia for bias. It ranges from misleading in some parts to outright falsehoods (see Canada US comparison) and citation spoofs in others. It needs a complete rewrite and preferably from someone who actually understands how to write academically using real empirical data without the strawman tactics all over the place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 19:37, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
Why so many US comparisons?
I understand that Canada is impacted by the US but it seems there is an unnecesarry amount of references and comparisons to the US in this article. This article is about crime in canada, yet every other phrase is quoting a US crime statisitic. Even in the section dealing with race and crime the US is again mentioned (with great detail about how blacks are supposedly not in ghettos in canada). Canada is its own Nation, you will not see any refferences to another country this frequent, in any other article about a particular nation's crime factors. I think a good deal of it should be trimmed down.
---Duhon December 23rd 2006
This still seems like an anti-US rant. 18.104.22.168 03:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Has been very comparative since I first read it. I don't mind you Yanks, just some of you are nuts! :P We really don't need any more comparisons it's starting to look like an Anti-American article. Fr0 07:52, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The USA/Canada comparison is from US political infighting using or I should say missusing Canada as an example for pushing one agenda or another.
Michael Moore used Canada in the Film Bowling for Columbine to push his views in spite of the fact that my nation has not been immune to school shootings. Truthfully I found Mr. Moore very rude and have avoided his films since but I understand he did it again with a health care comparison. Moore is not the first to do this, it has been going on for a long time but is the most obvious case.
Generally it has not been Canada producing these ridicules apple/orange comparisons but Americains who seem to be overly competitive and become highly agitated if another nation even seems to be doing better in any field.
I have gown quite tired of people in the USA using my nation to beat fellow Americains over the head.
The overall crime rate, however, of the United States was only 3,808 per 100,000 people in 2006, which was less than half that of Canada.
The reference is not a comparison between countries so it may be useless apples vs oranges to use it to back the sentence. The Canadian stats in the previous section appear to have included many more minor crime types so the comparison was as far as can be determined invalid and so removed. -----
So, Michael Moore's comparisons justify the continual use of this us vs. them mentality? There will never be an independent Canadian identity, when the entire basis for such is built upon comparisons. Look at any US page, here on Wikipedia. How many comparisons to Canada will you find? Virtually none. However, Canadian pages all mention somethng that illustrates a perceived superiority over the Americans. It is ironic how often Americans are slighted for their arrogance and pomp, when Canada is basing the whole of its nationalism upon which nation is better than the other. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 19:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
This section claims 1 million guns in Canada, though there are currently something like 6.4 million in the long gun registry alone. Estiamtes based on imports vs. exports and manufacturing vs. destruction (by police or otherwise) put the total number of guns in Canada at apporximately 11 million (handgun and long gun combined) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 00:56, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
The gun section is so badly sourced, and inaccurate it should be removed. The numbers aren't even inside the conservative estimates based on registry data. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 05:31, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
A few criticisms
A fair amount of the crime rate information is based on data from a single year, 2005, probably because it is the most recent year with statistics available. While the information is certainly accurate, some of the figures given have been known to vary significantly from year to year. Talking about year-to-year changes in the rates of certain crimes is perhaps misleading, since the changes in the rate of a particular crime in any given year might not reflect long-term trends. Likewise, certain cities might have the highest or lowest rate of a particular crime for a particular year, but it seems to sweeting to say "Anytown has the highest rate of crime X" when that is strictly only true for 2005. I would humbly suggest that an examination of longer-term crime trends might be more appropriate, although in fairness parts of the article try to do just that.
Second, any comparison of crime/police rates between countries should include an explicit discussion of the dangers of making such comparisons. While the incidence of Crime X might be higher in country A than country B, the definition of the crime could vary widely. (Think sexual assault in Canada, which is broadly defined, versus rape in some US states, which requires vaginal penetration. Also consider whether Canadian Alternative Measures programs, which deal with offences outside of the court system, artificially reduce the crime rate.) Likewise, the number of police officers could very much depend on how they are defined, e.g. are transit security officers considered police officers?. I'm not suggesting there shouldn't be any comparison between countries, but Wikipedia should be referencing sources that take these kinds of factors into consideration, and warning readers about the difficulties of measuring these things.
Finally... what a mish-mash. Why is the Frum article given such prominence? Do we care which provinces don't use the RCMP? Does the single sentence about Aboriginal people have anything to do with "Racial factors"? Does the comment about the terrorists arrested in Toronto really deserve comment?
This article needs a good re-write... I thought I'd just note my criticism here in case someone has the time to take this project on. 184.108.40.206 04:21, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
- The Frum article gets attention because someone included it, but the article contains fictional data and draws a conclusion that is completely wrong. If categorically untrue articles are mentioned in a wikipedia article, I think it is necessary that a rebuttal to the article also be included. Hence, far too much attention is paid to a ridiculous statement by an absurdly biased individual. Let's delete all mentions of the article, shall we? Its not like it has any factual validity or anything. Grant Gussie (talk) 15:05, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
"Other countries (comparisons)
[...]Canada has the 5th highest number of rapes per capita of any country, roughly 10x as many as the EU average."
Rapes have to be reported to be taken in consideration in the crime statistics. Being Canadian and having traveled and lived extensively in Europe, my opinion is that rape crimes are more reported in Canada than in the EU. There's still a stigmate in relation with rapes in european countries which somehow restrain people from going to the police and reporting them. So rapes crime rates are higher in Canada because they are more reported, which doesn't mean that Canada has 10x more rapes than european countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 15:34, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
A new Stats Can report came out recently with crime stats for 2007, I'll have a go at updating the data. I agree with whoever it was above that said the article should focus less on comparisons with other places (particularly the US) and more on what the actual numbers are, as well as province to province comparisons and how the numbers have changed over time... TastyCakes (talk) 01:19, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
- Well since noone responded over the past 3 months, I'm removing it. TastyCakes (talk) 20:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
I could not find any of the information for this section in the DOJ report cited as a source, except for the statement that it is hard to compare different countries' crime statistics. Could you please reference where this information is from. --The Four Deuces (talk) 19:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
how bout some comparisons with other nations
- There is some comparison, for example on guns, punishment and law enforcement. I think you are right though, a comparison of crime itself would be useful. 14:26, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Title of the racial factors section
Hello, an unregistered user keeps changing the title of the racial factors section to "Factors Related to Historically Oppressed Peoples and Circumstances of Injustice". To avoid an edit war we should really sort this out. I think the title as he has made it clearly represents a non-neutral point of view. Further it is ridiculously ungainly, and other than the politically loaded jargon says exactly the same as "racial factors". Wikipedia is not here to pass judgment on an issue - it is meant to present the issue as concretely and unbiasedly as possible. The old title is clearly better in these regards, as well as being much more concise. This article aims to describe the situation, not explain why the situation exists, especially in situations like this where the explanation is complicated, disputed and politically charged. TastyCakes (talk) 17:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
- The new title is certainly a bit over the top. The biggest problem is the content of the section. There are only two sentences, one of which reads like unreferenced original research. The ideal solution would be to have a detailed discussion of the various socio-economic factors linked to crime, with the aboriginal issue only one of many. - SimonP (talk) 04:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Did history of systematic police corruption and involvement in organized crime exist in Canada (as in Australia)?
I would have thought Australia with comparable population would have meant Canada (particularly Ontario and Quebec, and to an extent, British Columbia) would have suffered at times systematic high level police corruption, like what NSW witnessed for most of its history until the Wood Royal Commission (see also crime in Sydney for more details of systematic police involvement in organized crime for much of its history). Even in Melbourne, which is more similar to Canada in political culture and a much lower crime statistics, there has been constant strings of bloody gang warfare - see Melbourne gangland killings for details.
Yet it seems crime levels in Toronto are more akin to New Zealand than anything Australia has ever seen. We don't hear that much often about Toronto or Montreal gangland killings, and nothing about massive corruption scandals surrounding Toronto Police Service or RCMP akin to NSW Police from what I read. So, was there ever in Canada's history that saw high levels of systematic police corruption and ties with organized crime?
Is there something to do with culture, Canada not the biggest local fish in the region (but Australia definitely is), or I have not paid enough attention to the organized crime in Canada? If anyone has information on police corruption or involvement with organized crime in Canada they could add info here, thanks. --JNZ (talk) 07:27, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
lowest crime in 40 years
- Combination of Wikipedia is not a news source, and the fact that every year the stats get lower. The only reason this is more newsworty than other years is that the stats are in contradiction to the federal government's policies on crime. But if each year the stats go down, then it's hard to pick one of those years (i.e. this one) as being significant enough for inclusion... Singularity42 (talk) 12:09, 23 July 2011 (UTC)