Talk:Criticism of Judaism

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Circumcision[edit]

Shouldn't this article have at least some mention of the controversies surrounding Jewish circumcision?--Coin945 (talk) 09:15, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Of course there should be, and there was but apparently someone removed it. The previous version implied that circumcision was not painful, obviously it is so. Circumcision is probably the single truest criticism of Judaic practice there is! Opposition towards it is growing at an exponential rate both inside and outside of Judaism. 76.65.34.121 (talk) 13:28, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
The vast majority of practitioners of circumcision do not do so because of the tenets of Judaism. Criticisms of circumcision are not specific to Judaism, but rather to circumcision. Jayjg (talk) 03:40, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Jayjg, was there ever a vote held on this? 76.65.34.121 (talk) 04:36, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
(I trust Jayjg won't mind if I reply to this question.) Strictly speaking, we at Wikipedia don't "vote" on these things (see WP:VOTE). But the issue has been discussed before, and you can find the most recent discussion at Talk:Criticism of Judaism/Archive 10#bris. Because consensus can change, it is always possible to bring a topic up for discussion again. Please keep in mind that editors sometimes have very strong feelings about such subject matter. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:10, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't mind at all, Tryptofish. The IP editor asking about this topic, and focusing on how painful circumision is, uses the same ISP and geolocates to the same location as that used by the IP editor in the previous discussion on this topic. Coincidence? Jayjg (talk) 23:32, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Many people use my ISP and my location is a large city. Furthermore many, many agree that circumcision is painful, but I also happen to believe it is medically unnecessary, risky and a violation of the rights of a child. As Jayjg noted however this is a criticism of circumcision not Judaism and by the looks of things Jayjg has made some progress to acknowledge that criticism of circumcision is in fact valid and of substance. Although I like this, this does not mean that no reference to the circumcision debate belongs in this article. What about arguments that Jewish physicians are biased in favour of the alleged circumcision of both Jewish and non-Jewish patients? This argument was made by Leonard Glick in Marked in the Flesh. He also happens to be Jewish. 76.65.34.121 (talk) 08:38, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Well, it appears that more than one of us has made some progress, not that it really matters, as there is nothing wrong with bringing up a concern again. However, I'd be wary of conflating criticisms of physicians who happen to be Jewish with criticism of Judaism as a religion; it treads dangerously close to antisemitic canards, even if it were not intended that way by Glick. Perhaps it would be more productive to consider criticisms of circumcision as it is expressed in the tenets of the religion, separately from its practice outside of the religion. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:20, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
So what brought you back to this after all this time? Jayjg (talk) 00:30, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Why does this article make no mention[edit]

of the issues relating to race within the Talmud ?

the anti Gentile language in many parts of the Talmud have been noted and pointed out by everyone from Martin Luther to Avicenna for years and years.

yet not one mention on this page?

I know without even looking in the criticism of Islam page there must be a section on the Koran and infidels.

should there not be a section on Judaism and gentiles?

I would think with so many well known Rabbi's and Israeli officials, openly espousing anti Gentile racist remarks, there would be cause for an article like this?

if this has already been covered, direct me to where it has been discussed.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Savakk (talkcontribs) 20:47, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

The page has had a lot of history of subjects being added and then deleted. But perhaps the answer to why there is no mention is the rather banal one that no one has gotten around to sourcing and writing it, with no other agenda beyond that. It would be very helpful if you could provide some specific sources of the sort to which you refer. If the sourcing is there, it could certainly be added to this page. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:10, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Comparing criticism of Judaism article to other articles in criticism of religion series[edit]

It's truly intriguing and interesting to see this article in comparison to criticism of Islam article, or article on criticism of Christianity. Most of all it's amazing how we are able to write a thorough and long texts in these articles critical of everything Islamic, and I mean, o boy, Criticism of Islam article is humongous and written in a fashion of some official academic or governmental expose, but somehow very rarely checked for misusing of sources. So, at first it was really strange that this article had been scrutinized like no other and found that its sources were "misused", but we are often very sensitive in case of all other articles critical of everything Jewish or Israeli, but then again, shouldn't we all be in line with old proverb “balanced and Zionist in nature.”

Shame for the good article this once was.--Santasa99 (talk) 23:12, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

On "philosophical criticism, the mention of Thomas Jefferson's criticism.[edit]

It is misleading, Thomas Jefferson's criticism, is not in fact a criticism of religious/orthodox/pharisees.(His criticism being, that the concept of "The Afterlife" among Jews is not universal.[1] )Reasons why it is misleading: A. Since this article seems to be a criticism of the Orthodox Jewish sect or the descendants of the "Pharisees", then there is no criticism, for all orthodox Jews believe in the afterlife. He was criticizing people like Baruch Spinoza, who was most definitely not orthodox! Here is the reason why all Orthodox Jews believe in Afterlife:[2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.187.33.240 (talkcontribs) 05:47, December 4, 2013‎

Thank you for addressing a very nuanced aspect of the Jewish religion. The link you provide [1] explains that the concept of an afterlife plays a much less dramatic role in the Jewish religion than either Christianity and Islam. Whether Jefferson (or Kant) was correct in the criticism of Judaism isn't the point. It's still an historical fact that they were critical, in a gentle way, of certain aspects or an emphasis of the Jewish religion but not disrespectful of the Jewish people. Jason from nyc (talk) 13:42, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I agree Jason, but shouldn't the article at least make some mention that the misleading criticism is in fact wrong? Saying that Jews don't believe in an afterlife is a blatant lie. If one chances upon this article who is completely ignorant on the topic and is not the research type of person, then they will now think that this statement issued by someone of the stature of T. Jefferson is valid which in fact it is not. Just a suggestion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.187.33.240 (talk) 04:15, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Yes, you're right. I made it clear that it was Jefferson's view. While the article is not the place to explain Judaism's complete theory of the afterlife, I added a link to one of the wikipedia articles that goes into that subject. Of course, I leave it to the editors of that article to get it right. You might want review that article, too. Jason from nyc (talk) 12:40, 8 December 2013 (UTC)