Talk:David Sainsbury, Baron Sainsbury of Turville

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Untitled[edit]

Given directions on Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles) should this page be listed as David Sainsbury, David Sainsbury, Lord Sainsbury of Turville or as something else? I moved it to the latter, but someone has since moved it back so I would just like to know. -- Graham  :) 20:57, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Clearly the former - he's a life peer. Morwen 20:58, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)
Can you please explain why being a life peer makes a difference? -- Graham  :) 21:02, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Life peers don't inherit their titles, and have been usually known in public life by their real name, nor their Lordname. Morwen 21:02, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)
Thanks. -- Graham  :) 21:04, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The appropriate quote is 'Life peers (ie, people who have peerages awarded exclusively for their lifetime but who neither inherit it nor pass it on to anyone else)1 are generally mentioned by their personal name not title, because among other reasons a life peerage is often awarded at the end of a career, while the individual holding them may be far more widely known though their personal name, so use George Robertson, not Lord Robertson.' Morwen 21:05, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)

Why is the page of a junior minister, yet extremely rich man, semi-protected? Is it protected or not? You cannot be only a "little bit pregnant".

Why not let people read the uncensored reviews of the man?

[links deleted]

The piece mentions Lord David Sainsbury several times, and includes the opinions of several people about Lord Sainsbury:

[link deleted]

This is devoted to Lord Sainsbury even:

[link deleted] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.37.56.242 (talk) 13:17, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It may even express opinions. Is is any more propaganda than Lord David Sainsbury's own propaganda about his so-called "charities"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.37.56.242 (talk) 08:52, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unprotection?[edit]

Can this article and talk page be unprotected now so that unregistered users can edit and make comments? We can quickly restore protection if necessary. --TS 20:04, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've contacted the protecting admin, who is on a wikibreak, by email. This is Espresso Addict (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
He says it's okay to go ahead with both unprotections "as long as both article & talk pages were watched for the return of links to defamatory websites." This I'm prepared to do. --TS 01:32, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV tag added: "Business Career" is unsourced, unencyclopaedic and very NPOV[edit]

I added the NPOV tag to the top of the article after reading the "Business Career" section. I give some examples of serious problems here:

  • "This was done because it was believed Sir Robert considered John Davan Sainsbury (who became Chairman in 1969 on Sir Robert Sainsbury's retirement) to have a forceful, autocratic style of leadership, whereas David was always more cautious." - Unsourced! Hell, this whole section is unsourced.
  • "On JD Sainsbury's retirement as Chairman and Chief Executive on 2 November 1992, David Sainsbury became Chairman, a move that was never officially discussed at a J Sainsbury plc board meeting." - Unsourced! Unclear as to whether this is normal practise! NPOV language!
  • "The Sainsbury's management seemed to be blind when staff in stores started seeing customers defecting to Tesco due to a lack of innovation, arrogance and complacency, and blaming customers too often. This was not helped by the fact that JD had an autocratic style of leadership, and so compiled a management team full of "Yes Men" who were used to taking orders from JD. In contrast, even though his values and beliefs on Sainsbury's position in the marketplace were almost identical to those of JD's, David had a democratic style of leadership, and so with no senior management changes in 1993, JD's "Yes Men" were suddenly unguided on what they should do, even though Sainsbury's strategy remained broadly unchanged from that of JD's during David's reign." - NPOV! "seemed to be blind" - Unencyclopaedic language!
  • "...in both sales and profits. It went downhill from there." - Unencyclopaedic language!

Essentially this entire section acts to launch a personal attack John Davan S. and David S. - if it's not improved soon, I suggest it be deleted rather than allowed to remain in its current form. I don't know anything about this person (that's why I'm on this page), so I don't think I ought be the one to update it. 7daysahead (talk) 14:12, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Major pruning[edit]

I've pruned a lot of what I thought were NPOV statement - although according to WP:BLP I should have just blanked the vast majority of the page. This article has very, very few citations; I've left things which are relatively easily checked (e.g. share prices, corporate profits) on the assumption that they are easily checked and unlikely to be considered libellous - due to the unencyclopaedic tone of the original article, I expect that a lot of this might be WP:OR, with no good third-party sources. If you can make even a minor improvement to this article, please do so. 7daysahead (talk) 19:48, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Could someone help add references to this article and cut down NPOV statements as per WP:BLP? It has been a victim of vandalism in the past - I had to rv another edit today - and the subject will be a candidate in an election this Autumn; I expect most of the electorate (MAs of Cambridge University) to look first on Wikipedia. 7daysahead (talk) 18:13, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"He holds a BA degree in History and Psychology" - not correct[edit]

In fact, he started reading history but then got special permission to drop it and switch to another subject. As I understand it, though it could be said he read both subjects, history was no part of his degree. There is quite a lot of useful information about Lord Sainsbury in his appearance on the BBC Radio 4 programme, "Desert Island Discs" (broadcast 2004 and still available online in October 2011): http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/desert-island-discs/castaway/34dafa96 Paulmdt (talk) 09:09, 17 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hm. Due to the vagaries of the Tripos, one doesn't recieve a "Degree in Psychology" from Cambridge University, but a "Bachelor of Arts". If he read History for Part I and switched to Psychology for Part II then the article could be construed as being technically correct. Moar detail? 7daysahead (talk) 17:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The following information appears here: http://www.bristol.ac.uk/pace/graduation/honorary-degrees/hondeg07/sainsbury.html : "He started his undergraduate degree reading History but transferred in his second year to the Natural Sciences Tripos, to read Psychology." I'm afraid I know nothing about the Cambridge degree system, so I don't know if this clarifies the matter. Paulmdt (talk) 22:51, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(This looks vaguely relevant: http://www.hist.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/tripos-papers/choosing-tripos-papers). From the Bristol page I would assume he took Part IA (or possibly Part I - I don't know the History Tripos structure) in History and then Part IB and Part II in Natural Sciences. Since Part I and Part II from *any* courses can make a Cambridge degree, I'd opine that "History and Psychology" is a fair title. 7daysahead (talk) 23:24, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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