Talk:Dennis Joseph

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Problem with Surname[edit]

@Amakuru: In this article Joseph is used to address Dennis. But the real problem is Joseph is the name of the father and Dennis is the name of the person. There is no family name for this person. So if you address this person with Joseph then you are addressing his father not him. So I suggest to correct the Joseph with Dennis. Usually in India the surname might be the name of husband, father, grandfather etc. might not be the family name. So it is better to use the first name to avoid confusion. Now the artcile is like attributing the works of Dennis to his father Joseph. For example if you are writing about Eliyamma Joseph and addressing Eliyamma by the name Joseph then it will feel very awkward because Eliyamma is a female name and Joseph is a male name. So you are addressing a female with a male name, which is her husband. In the case of family names it is ok but here there is no family name. MOS:GIVENNAME and Patronymic#India explain more on this.--Ranjithsiji (talk) 07:34, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ranjithsiji: sources seem a bit mixed on this. I checked several, and those such as The Times of India, Deccan Herald and The Federal all call him "Joseph". I have seen others that say Dennis, and a few that use his full name on every mention so there seems to be a bit of inconsistency here. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 08:10, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Amakuru: Three Things. One - MOS:GIVENNAME the guideline clearly says to use the personal name (given name),Patronymic#India says to use the given name. Two - Wikipieda follows most popular name instead of the official name. You are an experienced admin so you already know that. Three - I am from Kerala, my house is near to this person's house. So I know what is popular here. So it is better to use Dennis instead of Joseph. Also it is better to do some research before doing a revert. If you revert you are destroy the effort of another person. Hope you follow my thoughts. I already had enough fight in English Wikipedia and I am fed up with that. I hope you will revert your reverted edit. Thanks. --Ranjithsiji (talk) 16:57, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Ranjithsiji: With all due respect, I did do my research, by checking what WP:Reliable sources say, in particular those from India, and I found those above which refer to him as "Joseph". I'll be very happy to revert and accept it if you have evidence that I'm wrong, particularly as you are knowledgeable on the matter of names in Kerala. But it still needs to be evidenced in reliable sources. We can't just rely on what you know from living near to him. For example, you say his father's given name was Joseph but I haven't seen any source confirming that - the source used in the article calls him "M. N. Joseph" without giving any details as to what M and N stand for... If we could confirm that aspect then it might be more straightforward. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 17:06, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Amakuru:


In these sources they refer as Dennis Joseph, Dennis not Joseph. You can check these sources these are the popular newspapers in Kerala. In the case of M. N. Joseph you must read Patronymic#India here M.N are toponym. Joseph is the primary name.--Ranjithsiji (talk) 19:24, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ranjithsiji: fair enough, you've convince me. I've switched back to "Dennis". Thanks for providing the evidence. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 19:40, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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