Talk:Detransition

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Is there a word for this?[edit]

WP:NOTAFORUM. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 01:09, 18 December 2023 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Wikipedia has an article called Transphobia.

Is there a similar kind of word for people who feel that way about detransitioners?

SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 04:06, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The most obvious candidate would be detransphobia, for which Google returns a handful of attestations. An article in the Bulletin of Applied Transgender Studies defines that term as fear or hatred of detrans people and the existence of detransition, but it is otherwise fairly rare. "To our knowledge, this term appears to be in use over social media but has yet to be discussed within academic scholarship.".
Unless this term enters the academic mainstream, I would describe the concept in wikivoice as "stigma against detransition(ers)" and positions/policies or anti-detransition. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 06:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rename article to "Retransition"[edit]

"Detransition" has a negative connotation and is falling out of favor within much of the trans community. "Retransition" has a more positive and affirming meaning. 98.114.41.189 (talk) 16:19, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Would need demonstrable RS support. We currently have a separate disambiguation article called Retransition, which explains that the term is variously used to mean either:
1. the same thing as detransition
2. a subsequent transition following detransition (i.e. resuming transgender identity or presentation)
To be frank the first sense is completely new to me, although a glance at Google shows some sources preferring it.[1] The majority seem to treat these as two separate terms.
The current title is less ambiguous for our purpose, so probably not likely to change. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 17:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've since adjusted the body text (diff) to clarify this somewhat. The BMJ source gives the following definition which I think is apt:

Retransition—Resuming a gender transition following detransition. Some detrans people may use this term to indicate restarting hormone therapy for medical reasons but without re-identifying as transgender. Others may apply this word to refer to re-identifying since initiating a gender transition such as moving from a binary transgender identity to non-binary. Some people prefer retransition to describe stopping or reversing transition.

–RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 17:37, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To be frank the first sense is completely new to me Me too, and I'm pretty up-to-date on the current terminology. Pretty much the only place I recall offhand is in the second sense, someone who is resuming or restarting a transition after detransitioning.
With some very specific Google searches, I'm only seeing a handful of reliable sources use the term in this sense. I think the BMJ source is enough that we could mention it in the article's body, but there's nowhere near enough usage in this other manner for us to rename the article at this time. I can't seem to find any sources older than late 2022 on this though, so this might well change in the next couple of years.
On a related note, I'm don't think reference 3 supports the sentence Some studies use the term retransition rather than detransition. in the article lead. The only place that source mentions retransition is in reference to Ky Schevers retransition. Is there a better source, ideally an academic source, that we could use there? I don't think the BMJ source that RoxySaunders found would work here either, because that refers to people using the term, not studies. Sideswipe9th (talk) 17:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Detransition is the common name for this. Calling this Retransition would be confusing because that can also refer to people who transition again after detransitioning. -TenorTwelve (talk) 08:41, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Article for transition regret?[edit]

This article currently distinguishes detransition from "transition regret", saying for example "The term is distinct from the concept of 'regret'".

Is there already a Wikipedia article for the concept of "transition regret"? Does anyone have thoughts on whether we should establish one?

I was reading the recent article

  • Barbee, Harry; Hassan, Bashar; Liang, Fan (27 December 2023). "Postoperative Regret Among Transgender and Gender-Diverse Recipients of Gender-Affirming Surgery". JAMA Surgery. doi:10.1001/jamasurg.2023.6052.

and wondering whether this information could be here, in a regret article, or elsewhere. Bluerasberry (talk) 19:29, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There absolutely should be a section on this page for transition regret but that reality is too hard to swallow for the trans community. This page has been propagandized to hell and back. 97.120.249.14 (talk) 19:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What are 7,28 participants? (Or: cite note 5 seems just plain wrong)[edit]

The text summarizing Detransition#cite note-5 claims that it encompasses 7,28 participants. This is not a number that makes any sense, and it made me want to understand this further.

I checked the referenced page, and it makes even less sense. The authors claim "We identified 55 studies that consist of primary research on this topic" but the Wikipedia page says "A systematic review of twenty-seven studies".

I could find no mention of the total number of participants, nor any trace of the authors summarizing the 'regret rate'.

This is a contentious subject and I'm not a well-seasoned editor on Wikipedia, so I do not want to make any changes to the actual page. I don't have any political agenda, but I'd like to see that the facts presented on Wikipedia is correct, so I'm hoping someone else with more confidence in editing this page could step up and fix this. Mag.icus (talk) 07:50, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mag.icus: I looked at the summary of the research and simply wrote a new statement.
As you said, the text that was there made no sense. The source is the Public Policy institute at Cornell University, which seems reliable enough, so I thought that was worth keeping. Bluerasberry (talk) 23:22, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'Forced detransition'[edit]

Do any of the sources use this phrase? The phrase 'forced detransition' in the context of these bills implies that medical treatment is a requirement of transitioning, which isn't the case. Suggesting that it is negates the trans identity of all those who transition without medical intervention or counselling services. Globally that's a significant number. 2407:7000:9BF1:4000:69C6:C11:9F81:FA18 (talk) 06:16, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I checked a few sources and did not find the phrase.
Also, I get what you are saying - "forced detransition" is not quite what is happening. Most of this is the legal prohibition of gender affirmation. Some of this is medicine, and some of the forced transition here may be government orders to use a particular toilet.
What does anyone else see? Who knows more about options for terms here? Bluerasberry (talk) 00:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe "forced medical detransition" at least in the case of medicine. The problem is that even in the medical setting it varies depending a lot on what treatment an individual is recieving. Also I'm not expert on proposed US law, but some of those state laws seem to actually ban "opposite gender presentation" in a vague way that differs depending on the state but could seemingly ban any public transition. Maybe adding commentary on these proposed laws would be a solution to the vagueness of the heading.
LunaHasArrived (talk) 13:47, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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