Talk:Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters

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"As it is treated as a marketing instrument rather than a contest, only factory teams can enter." Reads like POV, is uncited and arguably inaccurate, given that customer teams participate using 1 year old cars. Consider revising/removing. Adrian M. H. 20:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

DTM cars[edit]

Shouldnt the links to the cars represented by each manufacturer be links to the actual dtm cars and not the roadgoing versions.Michaeljuan (talk) 03:06, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Infobox[edit]

I have provisionally opted to list the number of drivers in terms of the number of seats available (20) rather than include the three replacement drivers that occupied the no.19 TME entry. If you disagree with this, please contribute to the relevant discussion at WP:MOTOR. Once the 2007 season entry list has been confirmed, these figures should be updated accordingly. - Adrian M. H. 18:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Specification section[edit]

Could someone add a section for the current specifications of the cars? To save time, you can just fill this out:

  • Engine Displacement:
  • Gearbox:
  • Weight:
  • Power Output:
  • Fuel:
  • Fuel Capacity:
  • Fuel Delivery:
  • Aspiration:
  • Length:
  • Width:
  • Wheelbase:
  • Steering:

I could make that a formal table, but I'd like to keep it flexible.Mustang6172 01:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I created the Categories for DTM circuits--Cheetaih (talk) 11:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Teams / Makes Champion[edit]

There seem to be some fundamental errors in the statistical information presented here. Both the Teams and Makes champions are claimed to be Mercedes-Benz, and yet Mercedes-benz do not run any teams themselves. According to the Mercedes-AMG article, HWA GmbH (no article) run some or all of the DTM Mercedes-Benzes. The DTM website list the teams champion as Salzgitter / Mercedes-Benz Bank, presumably the commercial, sponsored identity of the team. There is also no makes champion listed there.

Reflecting this, I've changed the teams champion, to reflect information on the DTM website, and removed the apparently non-existent makes champion.

Also - the champions table further down the page list manufacturers under the team's championship section, this is obviously false, and I intend to remove the teams championship section entirely until clarification can be sought, but not immediately so as to give the relevant knowledgeables time to respond. --Falcadore (talk) 02:15, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

What I do know is HWA AG builds and maintains the Mercedes' that are entered in the DTM series on behalf of AMG and Mercedes-Benz. Team HWA, HWA AG's official team, is considered a "works team". They maintain a four-car team using the latest variation and have always functioned like this, while the "privateer teams" such as Persson Motorsport and Mucke Motorsport have purchased HWA's year-old models. So yes, every Mercedes on the grid has been built by HWA and in fact raced by them. But it gets tricky because no more than two of HWA's cars have ever run under the same sponsorship, but they are team-mates as they race out of the same factory. I'm guessing it's just like NASCAR, one workship builds and runs multiple cars but they are subdivided into "teams" within a team. Thesmartstag (talk) 22:05, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Susie Stoddart[edit]

...is now Susie Wolff. I dont know how to change the link, the article about her person is already correct, it only needs to be linked properly. And Im missing the skills... 128.176.12.241 (talk) 15:33, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Done. Cybervoron (talk) 15:54, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Champions table[edit]

I trimmed the champions table back for a few reasons. Firstly, Wikipedia standard for these things is the champion, not top three. There is individual articles on each season, so there is no danger of the information being lost. People do not typically search for a list of championship second and third places. If they did, there are the individual season articles.

There are many many links thoughout the article indicating Deutsche Tourenwagen Meisterschaft is covered by a separate article. It is not necessary to add this in the champion table as well. Unneccessary duplication, particularly when the first instance it is bolded right at the top of the article. There is very little chance of the links being missed. Also the series name is identical in each instance, so why have that column at all, it is superfluous. --Falcadore (talk) 02:48, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 1[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. Pitlane02 talk 07:47, 13 May 2013 (UTC)


– Since 2006 the ITR and the DMSB, and of course the DTM himself, called the series only DTM, not as an abbreviation, more as a trademark.[1][2]. The reason is very easy, today NO touring cars are running in this series, the cars are prototype cars and the silhouettes are like coupes!

And in the next step a redirection from Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters to DTM is correct anytime, but the redirection from the disambiguation page DTM to Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters is only correct before 2006.

So I think, it's rational to move DTM to DTM (disambiguation) and Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters to DTM. Of course I'll relink the linked articles completly... Regards Pitlane02 talk 14:16, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Oppose a simple look at DTM shows that the acronym DTM is fragmented. I would need to see some pretty convincing stats that 1. This is primary topic and two the acronym is almost exclusively associated with this race.--Labattblueboy (talk) 22:03, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. Over the last 90 days, 43,308 views, vs. 7,527 for the next most viewed, other than Turing Machine, which is not in conflict. Apteva (talk) 02:02, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
What about reliable source material to show that DTM is really only associated with the race, and that the race is most commonly known as DTM. If that can be shown I'll switch my vote to neutral.--Labattblueboy (talk) 19:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
No problem, an elder official sporting regulations of the German sporting authority are attached above, I've added an actual English version of the sporting regulations too.[3] --Pitlane02 talk 19:58, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
When conducting a search for DTM in google books I found that of the approximately one million hits for DTM,[4] only 8,700 were for the German racing series[5]. If I ventured a guess, I would say "digital terrain model" is likely the lead topic with 27,00 hits.[6]. That being said, there are also various DTM computing terms and they collectively obtained 30,000 hits.[7].--Labattblueboy (talk) 15:33, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
This argument is good, but the lemma is and remains wrong, perhaps it's better to move this article to DTM (motorsport)???? Regards --Pitlane02 talk 19:49, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose The motor racing series can not make a convincing claim to be the primary topic. As long as DTM remains the abbreviation for Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters then it should not be moved. We are not about to move Formula One to F1 are we? --Falcadore (talk) 07:01, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose, I also agree, --Pitlane02 talk 07:47, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I am grateful for your answers, Thx --Pitlane02 talk 07:47, 13 May 2013 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not done. Nathan Johnson (talk) 17:22, 29 May 2013 (UTC)



Deutsche Tourenwagen MastersDTM (motorsport) – The lemma is WRONG since 2006. Since 2006 the ITR and the DMSB, and of course the DTM himself, called the series only DTM, NOT as an abbreviation, more as a trademark.[8][9][10]. The reason is very easy, today NO touring cars are running in this series, the cars are prototype cars and the silhouettes are like coupes!

A movement to DTM make no sense, because other terms (like Deterministic Turing machine) are much more useable (Thx for the discussion before).

So I think, it's rational to move Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters to DTM (motorsport). And in the next step a redirection from Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters to DTM (motorsport) is correct anytime. Of course I'll relink the linked articles completly... Pitlane02 talk 08:02, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Oppose; natural disambiguation is preferred over making up our own parenthetical disambiguation. In the extremely unlikely event that anybody ever comes searching for "DTM (motorsport)", we can accommodate them with a redirect. bobrayner (talk) 19:13, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
Normally I agree and your arguments are correct, but since 2006 this lemma is WRONG, and logic is complete inverted. So a redirect is only possible in the other direction, and a movement from Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters to "anywhere" is necessary (please make a better suggestion). thx and regards --Pitlane02 talk 19:25, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose; WP:NOTOPINION Your own personal definition, without referenced support, of what does and does not constitute a Touring Car (or Tourenwagen) does not constitute a valid reason for moving the article. We're not about to move Stock car racing because it has been decades since the cars had any resemblance to being "stock". Wikipedia is not a place for advocating your own views on a subject. Similarly stating a car cannot be a touring car if it is a coupe is a nonsense as cars like Mazda RX-7s, Jaguar XJS, Ford Sierra RS500, Honda Integra, Alfa Romeo GTV, Mitsubishi Starion, Ford Mustangs, Chevrolet Camaros and many many others have all raced in touring car racing in the past. --Falcadore (talk) 19:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
The main reason for a movement is, today the series is called "DTM" and not "Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters", every official sources since 2006 doesn't using the title "Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters". I agree, my personal opinion is completely irrelevant, so I've attached many sources. The argumentation with Coupes was only a further attempt, but a bad one. ;-) Sometimes it's better to read Appendix J complete. Other way you find no official sources with the words "tourenwagen" or a reference to Appendix J, article 251/252 (official definition of touring cars, FIA regulations[11][12][13]), or in the DMSB/DTM regulations[14][15]) regards --Pitlane02 talk 15:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
It does not however change the fact that Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters is prefereable to DTM (motorsport) per WP:NCDAB and WP:NATURAL. --Falcadore (talk) 23:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.