Talk:Devadasi

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Paragraphs unsourced and biased removed, by violation from NPOV.

Untitled[edit]

For previous discussion, please refer to the archives.

Encyclopedia = Definitions[edit]

The first paragraphs are horrific. I actually read all the way down to the contents box, paused, and realized I still have Absolutely no idea what Devadasi means. Thats a BAD start. The only clue is given by "married" - its in inverted commas. WTF?! What the hell does " "married" "mean?! It doesnt explain, and the beginning of this article needs a total rewrite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.215.127 (talk) 17:08, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


Pending restructure[edit]

It doesn't make much sense to talk about the 'historical' meaning of devadasi before the current meaning. I soon will restructure the article to make sense. This article will first say what 'devadasi' is (cult prostitution), and then talk about its history (dancers or whatever). While I remember letting the current setup be to attempt compromise with fundamentalist whitewashers, I can no longer accept this illogical structure. Right now this article tries to work around admitting that this is cult prostitution, but soon it will be brought back in line with reality. The Behnam 14:48, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

This article contains continuous references to the devadasi as 'women' This is wrong. Devadasi start their lives as children and are essentially child prostitutes.Because they cannot marry they end up in the infamous 'cages' of Mumbai where thousands of them could be seen aged about 14 certainly as late as 2000.

The existence of this situation is a disgrace to India

There is also a reference to the British Colonial Administration controlling brothels and prostitution in India. This is a complete lie. There was some control of prostition for health reasons near military areas but prostitution was and remains a huge industry in India —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.132.127.157 (talk) 07:30, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Devadasi references[edit]

Multiple sock puppets are adding false references about devadais in this article. Devadasi phenomenon was an offshoot of old Hindu kingdoms in India. The phenomenon has ceased to exist for since 1925 AD. So everything in this article refers to the past not present.

The following IP addresses may be sock puppets of a single user using an anonymizing website for making edits.

Devadasis have not 'ceased to exist', as a cursory glance at the literature will confirm. The practice is declining, however, as noted in the article. Earthlyreason (talk) 10:23, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Anonymized vandalism[edit]

All the following edits are coming via an anonymizer website.

MarkPC (talk) 01:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

MarkPC (talk) 01:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

MarkPC (talk) 01:48, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

MarkPC (talk) 03:55, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Reference describes the social status of Kaikolar Devadasis[edit]

The Erotic Sculptures of India, Y. Krishan, Artibus Asiae, Vol. 34, No. 4 (1972), pp. 331-343 provides references that describe the social status of Kaikolar women in India. The author explains how the Kaikolar Devadasi could never become a widow as she was considered to be married to the temple deity. Moreover the beads in her tali (thread worn by married Hindu women) were considered to bring good luck to women. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.73.138.77 (talk) 03:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

New users should not revert article before discussing on the talk page[edit]

Keep the focus of the article.

MarkPC (talk) 13:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

MarkPC is a sock of banned user[edit]

This user has created this account for the sole purpose of edit warring on this article. User has also been using multiple socks and ips across other articles in the past. Youonlylivetwice (talk) 14:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


Added academic source for the funeral procedures of Kaikolar devadasi[edit]

The book South Asian Social Scientist By South Asian Social Science Association, Department of Anthropology, University of Madras says that when a Kaikolar devadasi died, her body was covered with a new cloth removed from the idol, and flowers were supplied from the temple to which she belonged. No puja was performed in the temple until the body was disposed of. Here is a snippet view to the page in the book [1]. Youonlylivetwice (talk) 15:18, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Heavy pushing of POV by MarkPC (talk · contribs) who has been edit-warring with multiple independent editors trying to push POV[edit]

MarkPC (talk · contribs) has been reverting the edits of multiple editors from day one. This is evident from his contributions. All the ips that he has been accusing above have been proven as not an open proxy. In [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], he has listed multiple ips and has reverted edits by multiple users shown by his edits: [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16]

Proof that the ips are not open proxies: 1. 72.179.51.5 not an open proxy. proof: [17] 2. 59.106.138.10 not an open proxy. proof: [18] 3. 220.227.178.18 not an open proxy. proof: [19] 4. 64.73.138.77 not an open proxy. proof: [20] 5. 162.42.207.34 not an open proxy. proof: [21] 6. 202.134.73.50 not an open proxy. proof: [22]

MarkPC (talk · contribs) has been edit-warring and was warned by multiple editors and admins. He almost got banned but somehow seems to have slipped through the net. MarkPC (talk · contribs) is definitely a sock of a banned user Mudaliar (talk · contribs)/ Venki123 (talk · contribs) (see [23]) who has been making disruptive edits to article Devadasi. This id has been created for the sole purpose of edit-warring: a quick review of his contributions would reveal this. Youonlylivetwice (talk) 06:16, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Capitalisation[edit]

I have standardised the term as lower case: ‘devadasi’. This seems to be the predominant, and logical, presentation. However, the capitalised form ‘Devadasi' is relatively more common in Indian texts. So I've added a bracketed note in the second section to that effect. Earthlyreason (talk) 10:51, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Another source[edit]

Some useful stuff here.

Grauniad[edit]

Anything useful here? Totnesmartin (talk) 11:43, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

File:Temple dancer.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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File:Dancer.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

Image-x-generic.svg An image used in this article, File:Dancer.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 22 November 2011
What should I do?

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Girls forced into prostitution to provide income for their families[edit]

I stumbled apon a documentary film in the educational branch of the Swedish "state-owned" PBS. It portrays devadasi as a system where young girls are dedicated to an unmarried life in prostitution for the economic gain of their families. This is not the picture given in the Wikipedia article. By googling I found good support for the picture given by the documentary. I think the main problem with this article is that i focusses on the historic concept. The current state of affairs should be given priority, and history should be given as background.

--Ettrig (talk) 07:33, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

If it's correct that devadasi was much more common "historically" than in the present day (as seems to be the case), then I would think that the historical basis and practice of the system should at least be given equal weight with the current situation. The current situation is obviously better material for documentaries, but it's still only a snapshot of a very brief period of time. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 16:56, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

If Devadasi is prostitution, then what is Air Hostess, Physician and female attendee fall into??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.206.101.231 (talk) 11:46, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Confusing sentence about "inability to distinguish"[edit]

This doesn't parse as english, and I wonder what the intended meaning is, or what the relation is between the first half and the second half: Colonial views on devadasis are hotly disputed by several groups and organizations in India and by western academics as the inability of the British to distinguish them from the petty girls who danced in the streets I looked in the refs for anything about this "inability", but see none. Just deleting the second half may work, but perhaps some source is saying that the dispute closely relates to that inability somehow. ★NealMcB★ (talk) 18:56, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Rewriting[edit]

Could someone please do a massive rewrite of the beginning of this article? There may be more damage further down, I couldn't make it pas the "i", the personal opinion, the horrible (lack of) punctuation and the complete lack of actual information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.150.204 (talk) 03:35, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Devadasi is Prostitution and is forced upon girls[edit]

This is so accepted by all: Leftwing, Rightwing, Human Rights Organizations, Feminists, Hindus no linked to Teosophy, Indian Government, Atheist and Rationalists in India, Sociologists, Devadasis themselves, etc. Only Wikipedia tries to denying this fact. Every other website accept the reality. So I have removed words falsely claiming Devadasis have high status, or girls "want and like" to be devadasis, a very defammatory and racist concept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.207.187.233 (talk) 16:50, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Devadasi as sexual slavery[edit]

This version of the article contains well-sourced statements about the relationship of the devadasi tradition to forced prostitution. Some editors removed well-sourced information. I encourage other editors to research the topic, reintroduce the well-sourced statements regarding devadasi and prostitution, and provide more sources as well (there are many). Cogiati (talk) 06:45, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

  • BBC wrote in 2007 that "Devadasis are 'sanctified prostitutes'"[24] Cogiati (talk) 06:48, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
  • Author Anil Chawla who has written a book on devadasis described the girls' human condition as follows: "That is the sad story of the life of a woman who is raped even before she can understand the meaning of sex, who lives a miserable life of poverty and disease, who dies early without anyone to care for her. Yet, she struggles to maintain her dignity and self-respect." http://www.samarthbharat.com/files/devadasihistory.pdf Cogiati (talk) 06:50, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't think we need such quote or information, which is certainly incorrect. Well, what i am trying to tell is, that Anil Chawla has no page in wikipedia, makes him no-namer already, then he's not actually explaining the devadasi system, but criticizing it by posing a very negative side. Removal of other information by Handyunits is valid, because this page seems to be depending on a single source too much, if you revert to the 1 day older version. Bladesmulti (talk) 07:52, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
The page is too heavily biased by not explaining the negative side of devadasi. An author having no article on Wikipedia doesn't mean he isn't a reliable source. The removal of information wasn't valid, the information was properly sources and balanced the article. Cogiati (talk) 12:20, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
There is always some abuse of profession, there are doctors who are criticized for stealing organs, nurses are criticized for night duty, cops are required for having ties with criminals, and so on.. So we were are going to add all of them everywhere? Sorry, there's no need of anything like "negative views", they are certainly not needed, it has been already mentioned in whole page, at least 24 times, that devadasi tradition has been abused for prostitution, thus leading to ban it, in the same sense that no marriages are regarded unless it's with the opposite gender, and prostitution in India is illegal.. It's not just for Devadasi but for just any other type of person. Since there were only 45% of Devadasi involved in Prostitution, as per the page, it can't be really regarded as prostitution either. I have found this interesting link [25], suggesting that 30% of female servants in Paris are prostitutes, so we are going to regard servant job in Paris as a "type of prostitute"? Bladesmulti (talk) 13:02, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
45% of devadasis being prostitutes isn't a low percentage, it's quite high, considering that most prostitution is unreported or hidden, if statisticians managed to discover 45% then the actual percentage must be double that. Probably the other 55% who weren't reported as prostitutes are just hidden prostitutes. If I understand correctly, the devadasi practice has been declared illegal, thus the lawmakers probably understand it's dangerous for the girls, obviously because of the prostution element. An encyclopedia article hiding the widespread prostitution of this practice would place more girls at risk, since someone could cite the article to make the girls or their parents believe that the practice has merit, and thus more girls would fall victim to forced prostitution, so it's important to make all viewpoints visible in the article in a neutral manner, and now the article is biased to a pro-devadasi view. Interesting link, if 30% of Paris female servants are prostitutes then yes, I'd personally classify the profession as a prostitution-associated profession, in a similar way to body massage providers: a number of them offer only massage, and a number of them offer massage plus sexual services. If it happens with servants as well then I'd say it should be noted in the relevant article too. Cogiati (talk) 14:51, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Let's don't talk about being "unreported", because it's baseless, what i am trying to tell is, that more than 20 times, this article has already highlighted the prostitution. Which is certainly enough. Marrying a temple and dedicating life to temple is not certainly 'harmful', just zero legal proceeding or recognition of such activity in documents. Bladesmulti (talk) 15:15, 22 November 2013 (UTC)