Talk:Distillation

Misuse of sources

Jagged 85 (talk · contribs) is one of the main contributors to Wikipedia (over 67,000 edits; he's ranked 198 in the number of edits), and practically all of his edits have to do with Islamic science, technology and philosophy. This editor has persistently misused sources here over several years. This editor's contributions are always well provided with citations, but examination of these sources often reveals either a blatant misrepresentation of those sources or a selective interpretation, going beyond any reasonable interpretation of the authors' intent. Please see: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jagged 85. That's an old and archived RfC. The point is still valid though, and his contribs need to be doublechecked. I searched the page history, and found 35 edits by Jagged 85 (for example, see this edits). Tobby72 (talk) 18:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Having reviewed the content and perused the RFC, I have determined that the following paragraphs may be subject to this concern. Subsequently I have removed a large chunk of the article (Sorry) until references can be verified (see diff).

The folllowing paragraphs, represent a minimal level of affected text, after examination of Jagged 85's changes.

The invention of "pure distillation" is credited to [[Alchemy and chemistry in Islam|Arabic and Persian chemists]] in the Middle East from the 8th century. They produced distillation processes to isolate and purify [[chemical substance]]s for [[Industry|industrial]] purposes such as isolating natural [[ester]]s ([[perfume]]s) and producing pure [[alcohol]].<ref name=Briffault>[[Robert Briffault]] (1938), ''The Making of Humanity'', p. 195: {{quote|"Chemistry, the rudiments of which arose in the processes employed by [[Ancient Egypt|Egyptian]] [[Metallurgy|metallurgists]] and [[Jewellery|jewellers]] combining metals into various [[alloy]]s and '[[tinting]]' them to resemble [[gold]] processes long preserved as a secret monopoly of the priestly colleges, and clad in the usual mystic formulas, developed in the hands of the [[Arab]]s into a widespread, organized passion for research which led them to the invention of pure [[distillation]], [[Sublimation (chemistry)|sublimation]], [[filtration]], to the discovery of [[alcohol]], of [[nitric acid|nitric]] and [[sulfuric acid]]s (the only [[acid]] known to the ancients was [[vinegar]]), of the [[alkali]]s, of the [[Salt (chemistry)|salts]] of [[Mercury (element)|mercury]], of [[antimony]] and [[bismuth]], and laid the basis of all subsequent chemistry and physical research."}}</ref> T

[[Islamic science|Muslim scientists]], to isolate natural [[ester]]s ([[perfume]]s)

Early forms of distillation were known to [[Babylonia]]n [[Alchemy|alchemists]] in [[Mesopotamia]] ([[Iraq]]) from at least the [[2nd millenium BC]].<ref>Martin Levey (1956). "Babylonian Chemistry: A Study of Arabic and Second Millenium B.C. Perfumery", ''Osiris'' '''12''', p. 376-389.</ref>

Distillation was further advanced by [[Alchemy (Islam)|Muslim chemists]], especially by the [[Arab]] chemist [[Geber|Jabir ibn Hayyan]] (Geber) in [[Iraq]] ''circa'' [[800]] AD. He is credited with the invention of numerous chemical apparatus and processes that are still in use today. In particular, his [[alembic]] was one of the first [[still]]s, the first to feature [[retort]]s, a precursor to the [[pot still]], and its design has served as inspiration for modern micro-scale distillation apparatus such as the Hickman stillhead.<ref>[http://www.chemistry.mcmaster.ca/~chem2o6/labmanual/microscale/ms-distn.html Microscale Laboratory Techniques - Distillation] from McMaster University</ref> [[Petroleum]] was also first distilled by Muslim chemists in the 9th century, producing chemicals such as [[kerosene]].<ref name=Ajram>Dr. Kasem Ajram (1992). ''Miracle of Islamic Science'', Appendix B. Knowledge House Publishers. ISBN 0911119434.</ref>

while [[steam distillation]] was invented by [[Avicenna]] in the early [[11th century]].<ref>A. Wolf, G. A. Bray, B. M. Popkin (2007). "A short history of beverages and how our body treats them", ''Obesity Reviews''.</ref>

A list of edits extracted from the changelog :

13:24, 25 October 2009 Jagged 85 (→History: Hellenistic) 
06:36, 12 September 2008 Jagged 85 (→History) 
13:31, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: elaborated on translations) 
13:28, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: added ref) 
12:26, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: seperated India and Europe from Middle East) 
12:23, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: linked) 
12:22, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: clear) 
12:21, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: copy-edit) 
12:18, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History) 
12:17, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: Latin translations) 
12:13, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: re-worded) 
11:54, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: added Alkindus) 
11:50, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: added "pure distillation") 
11:44, 17 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: Zosimos of Panopolis) 
08:52, 6 August 2008 Jagged 85 (→History: Arabic and Persian) 
15:41, 17 October 2007 Jagged 85 (→History) 
15:40, 17 October 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: updated image text) 
15:39, 17 October 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: re-worded) 
15:37, 17 October 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: pure distillation) 
11:48, 13 October 2007 Jagged 85 (→History) 
11:46, 13 October 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: distilled alcohol) 
11:44, 13 October 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: re-worded) 
11:43, 13 October 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: elaborated on first sentence) 
11:37, 13 October 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: elaborated on Jabir) 
06:08, 28 September 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: links) 
02:44, 6 August 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: retorts) 
16:23, 18 July 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: still) 
16:21, 18 July 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: added Avicenna) 
05:49, 18 July 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: Babylonian) 
05:43, 18 July 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: added Mesopotamia and al-Razi) 
04:42, 18 July 2007 Jagged 85 (→History) 
16:11, 23 June 2007 Jagged 85 (→References) 
16:11, 23 June 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: mentioned petroleum and kerosene) 
15:55, 23 June 2007 Jagged 85 (→History) 
15:47, 23 June 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: Roman Egypt is more specific) 
15:46, 23 June 2007 Jagged 85 (→History: Roman Empire) 

User A1 (talk) 19:29, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Pure distillation

I'll add one thing here: the idea of "pure distillation" seems to be a figment of Jagged's imagination. You can see in this edit where he adds the word "pure" to an existing quote from a work from Briffault (not a marvellous source to begin with). As far as I can tell, this is a deliberate distortion of that quotation to allow him to continue to make claims about the Islamic invention of (at least something to do with) distillation, which itself was plainly not invented by them.
If anyone can make any sense of this notion of "pure distillation" (or find some justification for his addition of that word there), I would be glad to hear about it. Otherwise I will removing this (apparent) nonsense.
All the best and many thanks for helping with cleaning up some of that editor's vandalism. –Syncategoremata (talk) 23:32, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I've checked four different versions of the Briffault book, both paper and online copies, and they are all just reprints with the identical texts, and none have the deceitful change added by Jagged 85 (talk · contribs) of "pure distillation". I will remove this nonsense.

All the best. –Syncategoremata (talk) 20:59, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

MED

The section on MED needs revision. As is, it is worse than having no information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexander.mitsos (talk • contribs) 23:18, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

legality of distillation

According to homedistiller.org (unlicensed) distillation is an illegal process in most if not all nations, except New Zealand. I doubt this, but was wondering if there is any detail on the legality of distillation per country. --— robbie ^{page talk} 16:17, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

The New Zealand situation is restricted to small stills and for personal use. It's in their Criminal Code. In Australia, it's illegal to own a still of less than 5 litres capacity but illegal to use such a still for distillation of alcohol.

In some parts of Europe, artisanal amateur distilling is tolerated for personal use (if not entirely legal). In the UK and Ireland, it's entirely illegal and not tolerated without a licence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.116.161.48 (talk) 09:15, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Minimum difference in boiling point temperatures for simple distillation to be useful?

This page says the minimum difference in boiling point temperatures of compounds in a mixture in order for simple distillation to be useful is 25°C. My textbook (Gilbert and Martin, Experimental Organic Chemistry 4th edition) says the minimum temperature difference is 40-50°C, which is a huge difference. The textbook says that 20-30°C is the minimum for fractional distillation. I tend to agree with my textbook as we just did simple distillation of Ethyl Acetate and Butyl Acetate (difference in b.p. 49°C) in my Orgo lab and the results were less than great. But that's original research so I was wondering if anyone else had an opinion or a better source.

Not sure how to answer clearly, but here goes... The concept of there being a need for a minimum difference in boiling points is erroneous and probably comes from rules of thumb for separating two pure phases in a single distillation using a simple apparatus. That is, if you can boil off 100% of phase A without boiling off/condensing phase B. Think back to WWII in Norway, when heavy water was separated from "normal" water by multiple distillation. The boiling point difference is only 1.4 degrees, yet heavy water was successfully produced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.116.161.48 (talk) 09:11, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

distilation of ethyle acetate and isopropyl ether

i want to know how can we seperate ea and ipe having composition 10% and 90% respectively. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.98.39.80 (talk) 10:38, 14 February 2012 (UTC)