Talk:Diwali

About Buddhism and Diwali.

The information about Ashoka is given totally wrong. Ashoka did not accepted Buddhism on the day of Diwali. Ashoka became Buddhist on the day of Vijayadashmi (you may say it Dasra of Hindu Religion) This article is misleading people. Neither Buddhist people worship Buddha on the occasion of Diwali. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.61.26.168 (talk) 18:46, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. Per WP:COMMONNAME the article is at the right place. --regentspark (comment) 01:36, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Diwali → Deepavali – Deepavali is the original Sanskrit name (and still the name of the festival outside the Hindi belt). Diwali is just a regional version of the name. Snowcream (talk) 06:30, 22 October 2011 (UTC) In many articles related to Hinduism, Wikipedia has used the original Sanskrit name. This article should conform to that consistency and not use the Hindi term. Snowcream (talk) 17:29, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

But whoever uses Deepavali anymore? I mean, in Bangladesh we use Deepavali (pronounced Dipaboli) but Diwali is the most popularly used term. Ratibgreat (talk) 06:34, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Deepavali, the original term is very popular as well, especially in Southern India. The article's current name of Diwali is a reflection of the systemic bias that exists. The name "Deepavali" - because of being the original term preserves the neutrality of the article title. Snowcream (talk) 21:08, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose The old Sanskrit name doesn't matter, we don't live in the ancient past here. Diwali is the most common name now. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 07:05, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

If the festival were now universally celebrated under the name of Diwali, i would have concurred with your view; but that is not the case.Snowcream (talk) 21:08, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

• The article says the Sanskrit is Dīpāvalī. Where does the "Deepavali" (or should it be De'epāvalī?) come from? —  AjaxSmack  02:23, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

That's just the IAST convention, the long "ee" sound is transliterated as "ī". However, the english word uses "ee". if you do a google search for "Dipavali" (click here), it'll redirect you to search results for "Deepavali". Snowcream (talk) 11:23, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Ironically, that same search is headed "Diwali is on Wednesday October 26, 2012"; make of that what you will... Moonraker12 (talk) 13:37, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

• Support. I've never seen anyone saying Diwali except online! The page should be renamed and moved from Diwali to Deepavali. Ben (talk) 21:55, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Deepavali is the common word used universally. Diwali is just the term used mainly in North India (Hindi speaking areas) only. Diwali is actually shortened from Deepavali. In South India the original term Deepavali only is used. The article sould be named Deepavali to maintain neutrality.
  Anish Viswa 03:32, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

• The common name in fact appears to be "Diwali"; 35.5 million google hits[1], as opposed to 10.7 million[2] for "Deepavali". And the name used in Britain, at least, is "Diwali". So I'd oppose the move. Moonraker12 (talk) 13:29, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

The notion of "common name" that you entertained here is faulty. North Indians and people of North Indian origin form a sheer majority among Hindus and this numerical advantage is what you perceived as a common name. In Britain, this festival is only celebrated by people of Indian origin; among whom North Indians again form a huge majority. My point here is that the name "Diwali" contains a bias in itself, where as "Deepavali" by virtue of being the original name upholds neutrality. Moreover, many North Indians do call the festival "Deepavali" too. "Deepavali" has universal acceptance which "Diwali" does not enjoy. Snowcream (talk) 17:22, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Plus; in a Google.com search, I got 10.7 m hits for "Deepavali" ([3]) and 11.9 m hits for "Diwali" ([4]). not a significant lead. Snowcream (talk) 17:22, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Just so you mentioned Britain, i would like bring it to notice that; it's called Deepavali in Singapore where it's a public holiday. ([5]) Snowcream (talk) 06:53, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

The ‘notion’ of common name you say I am ‘entertaining’ is in fact the WP guideline on the subject, so I wouldn't describe it as 'faulty'. But as (I notice) you've conceded the point (below) I'll reply to your comments there, instead. Moonraker12 (talk) 18:28, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) Oppose per COMMONNAME. 189k books for Diwali v/s 46.4 k for Deepavali. News: Diwali v/s Deepavali. The common greeting is "Happy Diwali", not "Happy Deepavali". --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:25, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Common name where? universally ? Snowcream (talk) 17:29, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I am not contesting the name "Diwali" on the basis of "common name" (the reason for which I have already explained). It's about Systemic bias and neutrality in title. You cannot even argue that "Diwali" upholds these values. Snowcream (talk) 17:41, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, the Neutrality section says “When the subject of an article is referred to mainly by a single common name, as evidenced through usage in a significant majority of English-language reliable sources, Wikipedia generally follows the sources and uses that name as its article title” (Common Name, still) it merely provides a caveat for when “that common name will include non-neutral words that Wikipedia normally avoids”. Is that the case here? And WP:NPOV#Naming has “If a name is widely used in reliable sources (particularly those written in English), and is therefore likely to be well recognized by readers, it may be used even though some may regard it as biased.” asking only that “alternative names should be given due prominence within the article itself, and redirects created as appropriate.” So Common Name trumps Neutrality, as a rule.

As for WP:Systemic bias, that is mainly concerned with a predominantly male, middle class, English-speaking majority here not giving sufficient attention to subjects outside its experience; I’d say that is already addressed by having this article. And the project page says the remedy is to address omissions, rather than trying to address how material is presented. If you are alleging that North Indian culture is the predominant one seen by the outside world, it isn’t WP’s task to resolve that, even if it were true.

But if there is an issue (and you’ll need decent sources to back it up), write a paragraph for the article on it. That’d be better than hiding it away where English speakers won’t look for it. Moonraker12 (talk) 18:45, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

• Deepavali Deepa (Lights) & Vali (Rows of or Plenty of etc.,)

Diwali? I see no meaning in it!

Ben (talk) 22:00, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Is this another vote, Ben? Or just a comment? Moonraker12 (talk) 18:25, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose I get 26,700 post-1990 English-language Google Book hits for "Diwali", 5,250 for "Deepavali". Here is an ngram. Kauffner (talk) 05:11, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Gujarat

This section arrived here as a result of a merge from Diwali in Gujarat a couple of days ago (22 October 2011). I’ve un-merged it, as this article is certainly not been improved by it. This article is already 58 Kb long, which is plenty big enough; and the DiG article has major problems with it (addressed here), which won't be resolved by bringing it here but certainly make this article worse.
I suggest for this article, and if the celebration in Gujarat is significantly different to warrant it, we should have a summary here (one or two paragraphs) and a main article link to the DiG page. Moonraker12 (talk) 20:04, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

4th day: Navu Varsh (Vikram New Year)

In this reference it is stated that the 4th day of Diwali is called "Navu Varsh", the New Year of the Vikram calendar. I have not found this information on WP sofar. Is it correct? If so, does this apply for the whole of India, or is this regional? Wiki-uk (talk) 08:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes. [6] [7] [8]. Regional in nature, at least Gujaratis celebrate the new year on this day. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 12:28, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

good but needs improvement — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.168.49.77 (talk) 19:30, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Merge suggestions

As this page is already pretty big, and we now have articles elsewhere on these subjects, can I suggest we summarize these two sections and move the present content to the specific day page? (Comments below, please). Moonraker12 (talk) 14:45, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Jainism section

I suggest summarizing this section (one paragraph) and moving the content here to Deva Devali, which is specifically about the Jain festival. Moonraker12 (talk) 14:45, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

There’s been no objection to this, so I’ve gone ahead and done it. I trust that’s OK with everyone. 81.141.231.0 (talk) 12:06, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Oops, forgot to sign in! Moonraker12 (talk) 12:10, 20 December 2011 (UTC) (aka 81.141.231.0)

Sikhism section

I suggest summarizing this section (one paragraph) and moving the content here to Bandi Chhorh Divas, which is specifically about the Sikh festival. Moonraker12 (talk) 14:45, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Not sure about this. It seems to me that the two celebrations, Diwali and Bandi Chhorh Divas, are not the same things. Perhaps we could cut out most of the stuff about Guru Hargobind's freedom from here, leaving a mention of the divas, but the rest of the Sikh diwali content is about diwali rather than about the Divas. --regentspark (comment) 15:35, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't disagree with that, we should have something here about Diwali from the Sikh point of view. I just felt that a lot of the content is about something else. And yes, Bandi Chhorh Divas is a different festival (AFAIK), though it is historically related. It is confusing to suggest (as we do now) it is the same thing as Diwali. Moonraker12 (talk) 17:49, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed some of the excess fat from that section. --regentspark (comment) 23:12, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, I’ve trimmed the rest, and added another link. I was going to copy what was here to the BCD page, but it looks like there's a better description there already. I've removed the merge tag, now. Moonraker12 (talk) 12:38, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Looks good. Much cleaner than before.--regentspark (comment) 17:15, 20 December 2011 (UTC)