# Talk:Dog park

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## Nonviable references

The dog whisperer and a Master's thesis aren't good sources. One is from popular media and the other isn't a published book or article, just someone's thesis. The quoted material (from the thesis) is dead on, but needs a better source.Editfromwithout (talk) 02:24, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Totally agreed. I found this, er, gem through the copyediting backlog and tried to clean it up as best I could, but it really needs a thorough scrubbing of POV and unreliable sources. Will happily support any changes and try to help out with better sourcing if you're interested in working on this.
Also, just FYI, the general convention 'round these parts is to put new talk page comments below the older ones. Just the social norm on English Wikipedia (interestingly, it's the opposite on Russian Wikipedia!). Accedietalk to me 02:39, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

## Normative Sentence

I'd have preferred a discussion before you removed the sentence, IP user. I will be finding sources and "correcting" what you deem to be an opinion instead of fact, since much of what is listed in that sentence not only makes common sense, but happens to be promoted by dog park etiquette experts. Vsanborn (talk) 17:36, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

## Benefits Section

Removed new "benefits" section as it was a direct copy of [[1]]. If we can get permission from that site to use the text under GFDL, it can go back in. Elf | Talk 21:34, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I am actually the author of the benefits page on the FETCH web site (and its webmaster.) So I think it can be restored. But, not being that up onthese things, can you confirm that the footnotes crediting the two facts are adequate for this purpose?

Ron from Whidbey island

OK, I put it back. Thanks! I think the references are fine. Elf | Talk 17:25, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Major Changes Made

PLEASE NOTE: I've made extensive changes to this entry between March and April of 2009, adding citations and working on the neutrality of the tone. It's been two years since the last comments were made. I believe that some of my changes address the issues you had with the original writing, however I kept the original outlines where I could. Vsanborn (talk) 19:42, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Having waited a couple of weeks for discussion, I've removed the "This article has been nominated to be checked for its neutrality." Opinions have been neutralized; several points of view have been taken into account, and inline citations have been added.Vsanborn (talk) 18:04, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

The reference section is too long. The category links keep disappearing. I will fix this when I can.Vsanborn (talk) 20:34, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

While you're at it, can someone get rid of this little gem?

"My dog Darby and I visit the Minnehaha Regional Park off-leash area almost every day that I'm not at work," enthused Robert Coffman, St. Paul. "It's good exercise for the two of us. It's a pleasant way for me to get some fresh air, and Darby couldn't be happier!"

76.205.172.225 (talk) 03:08, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Cut. Anna talk 03:28, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

## Article title

I just moved the page... why on Earth was this at "Dog park (dogs)"? Do you suppose there would be "Dog park (cats)"? "Dog park (orangutans)"? - furrykef (Talk at me) 20:42, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Just found there's a Dog Park (movie) Great. Why'd the disambiguation have to be at Dog Park with nothing at Dog park? OK, so should we move the page back to Dog park (dogs), or have two articles, Dog park and Dog Park? - furrykef (Talk at me) 20:48, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Oooh, I like the idea of Dog park (orangutans). Should be entertaining. Let's start one (the park, I mean, not the article). I think that this should be the article on dog parks with a reference to Dog Park (movie). I don't know that we really need a dab page; doesn't seem likely that there'll be more than these 2 references, although I suppose you never can tell. Elf | Talk 05:31, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Here's what happened: I wrote the original dog park article, but found that an article for the movie already existed. Therefore, I created a dog park (dogs) article and then created a disambiguation page. This was back in June of 2004. At that time, I didn't really know what else to do.The Dogfather 20:20, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

## I edited benefits page

I took out this: "Off-leash dog areas are places of camaraderie and friendship. They are wonderful places used by caring and responsible people."

This was just too hokey and opinionated. I personally love dog parks, but there are plenty of irresponsible people that use them. It just sounded too much like a plug- not very fitting for a dictionary.

I agree to the change. They're just dog parks, not a religion. And as much as I like visiting the dog park, it is from time to time visited by ignorant oafish people and their aggressive, dangerous mutts.

I've added citations that address this issue. By the way, I did not write the above observations. Vsanborn (talk) 21:42, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I've also removed this section, which sounds like an editorial:

While suburban and rural zones have traditionally been areas containing most of the pet-owning population, the urban environment has been undergoing an increase in pet population since the 1970s.[citation needed] This, combined with the fact that over the past 15 years urbanization has been taking over what was formerly considered to be suburban and rural areas, has resulted in a phenomenon called "urbananimalization."[citation needed] This, first of all, encompasses the recognition that animals are and will continue to be a "quality of life" aspect of urban society.[citation needed] Secondly, it recognizes that development must specifically provide for the inclusion of domestic animals in its growth plans.[citation needed]

Plus I could find no citations to back up these assertions. I did see one reference to urban animalization, but that was in reference to a canine disease.Vsanborn (talk) 21:42, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I removed an oddly-written conclusion from the Concerns section that appeared to be more of a plug for an author/website. It began "It is a mistake for owners to assume that their dogs will be well behaved and will know doggie etiquette just because they visit a dog park. In Dog Parks: Why They Are a Bad Idea!, Ed Frawley states:..." There are several things wrong with this including: it seems like just a plug for the author, it draws a conclusion that something is a "mistake" by citing only one source as opposed to stating that there are sources who consider it a mistake, and, not the least, it says "doggie etiquette" outside of a quotation. --joeOnSunset (talk) 00:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

## Neutrality Check Nomination

In looking at the history the part that is most offensive is the anonymous unsourced rant added by User talk:69.47.228.118 in December 2005. If I nuke sections of the article it will be the unsourced data and that section will have to go. Unfortunately, I have a horrible feeling this will turn into flamebait. The only way to keep things cool is to put sources on everything.Americasroof 03:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Personally I think the original article that I wrote was sufficient. As usual a lot of other helpful "editors" came along and added a load of opinionated crap to an otherwise neutral, simple page. The Dogfather 20:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I think I've fixed the neutrality issue, giving every side their due. Vsanborn (talk) 03:46, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

## Unreferenced Assertions

I've been an activist for off-leash hours and off-leash park area for dogs for several years. I was hoping that Wikipedia had some good material. I am very disappointed in what this article contains and especially what it lacks: cited sources for the claims made. DCDuring 00:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I've added some citations and sources Vsanborn (talk) 17:58, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Please note that this reference does not have a link nor does it seem to exist: "Pets and People: The Bonds Grow Stronger", Pet Business, February 1990 Vsanborn (talk) 18:04, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I removed this unsubstantiated sentence - "They make better neighbors because they bark and dig out of their enclosure less often. If they do escape, they are far less likely to be aggressive." - and replaced it with one that has a citation: Vsanborn (talk) 18:33, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

## Design and Landscape features of off-leash dog parks

This whole section is horrible. There is not a single source cited, it sounds like a lot of original research. And some of the claims are quite preposterous! Single women needing to let their dogs off-leash at night at Walmart? I didn't want to be rash and delete it all, but if we can't clean this section up I guess that's the only option. --GSchjetne (talk) 09:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree this entire section needs to be scrapped. It has become someone's opinion piece.The Dogfather (talk) 21:41, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Section deleted. I'd also like to see the Instant dog park section go as well, but I'm afraid once I start blanking sections I can't stop :P
On the other hand, is this an article that really needs to be long at all? For instance, the benefit section contains a heap of uninteresting statistics from the US, which of course means little to the rest of the English-speaking world. Only the last paragraph actually addresses the benefits to the dogs. And I guess the main benefit to owners would be not having to frequently travel to the countryside when living in the city. I'll give this some thought myself and maybe attempt a rewrite. --GSchjetne (talk) 19:30, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I've included some elements from this section. The bulleted information did not look right, but some of the ideas were sound. Vsanborn (talk) 03:48, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I removed a statement about an abandoned lot being used as a dog park in Richmond since the citation link is dead.Vsanborn (talk) 13:02, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

## POV

Firstly, much of the article looks like a pro and con listing of debate points. That does not make up an encyclopedia article. Secondly its describing some things as "benefits" is POV in and of itself; maybe someone would see those points as negatives? Or vice versa? WhisperToMe (talk) 02:48, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

You must be new here ;-) The Dogfather (talk) 16:11, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
That joke was actually pretty funny! :)
The bit about how to handle praise and criticism is lifted from how the Barack Obama article was handled. One can notice a lack of "praise" and "criticism" sections.
WhisperToMe (talk) 07:29, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

## References missing?

Reference 32, regarding Cesar Milan's suggestions on pre-park walks seems to be missing, and a search of the site it sends me to is utterly unhelpful in regards to finding it. I'd say this needs to be re-sourced. Also, feel free to use this for any other out-of-date reference finds. Laws of Fizzix (talk) 06:15, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

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