Talk:Dream Cycle

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move; I agree with the proposed dab notice in case someone does write about the sleep-dream cycle. —Nightstallion (?) Seen this already? 17:31, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

H.P. Lovecraft's Dream CycleDream Cycle – In the interest of making titles as short as possible (and to remove superfluous information), "Dream Cycle" would seem the logical name for this article.
,-~R'lyehRising~-, 22:32, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

  • Comment. The term "sleep-dream cycle" (sometimes "dream cycle") is used by psychologists, e.g. Muzio, J N., and Dement, WC, "Ontogenetic Development of the Human Sleep-Dream Cycle," 1966. Science, 152, 604—609, and will likely have its own Wikipedia page at some point. We may want to think about it now to avoid problems down the road. Ahasuerus 22:42, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
    • I suppose if such an article were created it would probably go by the title "Sleep-dream Cycle"; in which case, a hatnote could simply be placed at the top of this article ("Dream Cycle"?) that reads something like: This article is about H. P. Lovecraft's story cycle. For the term in psychology, see Sleep-dream Cycle.

      The alternatives might be to make "Dream Cycle" into a dab pg (which I think adds an unnecessary layer of disambiguation), have "Dream Cycle" be the main article for "Sleep-dream Cycle" (prefaced with a hatnote back to here), or have "Dream Cycle" redirect to "Sleep-dream Cycle" (and be prefaced with a hatnote worded similar to {{Redirect}}).

      (BTW: In any event, I'm a proponent of "first-come first-served"; thus, since this article was created first, I would like to think it has dibs on the title.)
      ,-~R'lyehRising~-, 01:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Odds and ends[edit]

Is there a specific order in which the Dream Cycle works should be read? If so, it should probably be listed on the page.

If I remember correctly, there are some contradictions between some of the stories. --Tydaj 01:24, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A progressive band Payne's Gray has recorded a concept album called Kadath Decoded that dwells on these themes.

Weasel words[edit]

While I do not dispute the accuracy of this article, I am uncomfortable by its use of so-called weasel words. What it really needs are some verifiable sources.

Also, in the intro the phrase "master of the macabre" looks awkward. Is this an offical quote (in which case a citation is needed) or was it an editor's attempt to put a positive spin on Lovecraft (in which case it might potentially violate neutral point of view and no original research)?
,-~R'lyehRising~-, 23:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC) sorry to sound preachy

The expression "master of the macabre" is used on the dustjackets of his recent collections, on the Random House website and by various reviewers. I am not sure who used it to describe Lovecraft first, though. Ahasuerus 00:08, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Thank you for the references. I added the Tales of the Cthulhu Mythos cover blurb as a verifiable source (it's right there on the back cover of my copy).
    ,-~R'lyehRising~-, 01:02, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Postscript and update. It is likely that August Derleth was one of the first to describe Lovecraft using this appellation. Case in point, his essay about Lovecraft: "A Master of the Macabre", published in August 1937.
    _,-~R'lyehRising~-,_  04:00, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I noticed that an anonymous user removed the {{weasel}} template after making a minor change. However, this still does not change the fact that the article fails to supply secondary sources to support many of the assertions it makes.
    ,-~R'lyehRising~-, 02:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The White Ship[edit]

Since the Dream Cycle includes those stories of Lovecrafts that take place in the land of dreams, wouldn't The White Ship fall into here as well? Or is there someplace where the stories are divided cannonically that I could check? And what about The Quest of Iranon? 209.180.143.97 22:16, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

And Memory?--Sorensen ru (talk) 15:48, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Discrepancy in list of works?[edit]

I've stumbled across a discrepancy between this page and Dreams of Terror and Death: The Dream Cycle of H. P. Lovecraft. That anthology is supposed to be the entire Dream Cycle collected, but contains many stories not included on this page, and omits a few as well.

I'm something of a Lovecraft newbie myself (I'm becoming interested in Lovecraft as a fan of Howard), so maybe the level of correctness between these two sources is clearer to others, who might edit this page or add a note or something. --Daeval (talk) 21:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Charles Dexter Ward[edit]

The case of Charles Dexter Ward has nothing to do with the Dream Cycle... Why is it included? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.219.31.63 (talk) 21:11, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

If I had to take a stab in the dark guess, I say it was included because of Randolph Carter. The Dream Cycle and the Randolph Carter Cycle are certainly intertwined, but I agree that The Case of Charles Dexter Ward shouldn't be anymore included in the Dream Cycle than any other general Mythos story. 107.19.104.178 (talk) 15:57, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
The correct answer (as opposed to indulgence in speculation) is that the list of stories was haphazardly added to the article as a list of the contents of Dreams of Terror and Death, not as a list of Dream Cycle stories. Despite its title, Dreams of Terror and Death does not anthologize only Dream Cycle stories. There simply aren't enough Dream Cycle stories to fill a book this size (Dreams of Terror and Death is one of the oversized paperback Del Ray anthologies, about eight by nine inches by an inch and a half thick if memory serves), and about half of the stories included are not part of the Dream Cycle. That said, I don't see the need to include a listing of the book's contents since much of it is irrelevant to this article, and because the list has been added in such a way as to mislead readers into thinking that it is a list of Dream Cycle stories when it is not. 12.233.147.42 (talk) 22:30, 6 July 2014 (UTC)