Talk:Dubbing (filmmaking)

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Untitled[edit]

It occurs to me that cg-animated movies could be easily lip-synched to new dubs. In fact, all the original sounds could be perfectly matched. So internationalization would be seamless for movies like Shrek or The Incredibles! Is this already done? Cogent 21:35, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Probably, I heard about that already in Toy Story 2, so, yes. They just re-animate the mouth's movements for every new dub made.
It is also mentioned on the Shrek 2 and I, Robot DVDs - although in Shrek 2, they said it would only be possible in the future and wasn't at that moment in time. --Andyroo316 18:49, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Dubbing by Country?[edit]

Hey I'm new here Can someone make dubbing by country that's easier to follow -MaybaReta- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.64.11.49 (talk) 19:48, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Regarding German-speaking countries, the article states that "in big cities though, there are small theaters where movies can be seen in their original versions". This sounds like it's somehow difficult or inconvenient, even odd, to watch a movie in the original language. I don't know about Germany and Austria, but in Switzerland's big theaters in the larger cities (at least in Zurich), most or many movies are subtitled and both versions are screened. Actually, you have to be careful not to accidentally choose the "wrong" one, as many people speak foreign languages, especially English, quite well and insist they be able to hear the original dialogue. May I suggest to change that accordingly? Thanks! -- Tony from Zurich

Cost issue?[edit]

Is it not a fact that dubbing is used mostly in larger countries (e.g. France, Italy), whereas in smaller countries, for reasons of cost, subtitles are the rule? --S.

  • In the (relatively small) scandinavian countries it is definetely not a cost issue. If the audience had prefered dubbed TV and movies, they would have been dubbed. But allmost nothing is (only shows for small children who can't read are dubbed). People want to see everything with original sound and subtitles, wether it's in English, French, German, Chineese or whatever. A Norwegian TV-Channel made an experiment some years ago where they dubbed a new American comedy-series for about 10 episodes as their saturday prime time show. Then they ran it for a few episodes without dubbing and researched what the audience prefered. I believe there were about 90% who prefered the original version with subtitles. I guess it has alot to do with what you are used to. Me, a Norwegian used to subtitles, I absolutely detest dubbing and can't for the best of me understand why anyone would want it (except small children). I lived in Germany some years back, speak and understand German well, but going to the movies there or watching dubbed shows on TV was simply torture and anoyed me to no end. But my German friends couldn't understand why I was so fuzzed up about it, so I guess it's just a habit thing. Shanes 17:01, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Shanes, it doesn't sound as if you are completely neutral on the issue. The original decision to subtitle movies in small countries (or rather, "small" languages) was certainly a cost issue. Subtitling is much, much cheaper. (Though my experience is mostly with Scandinavia, where I live.) However, the only foreign language with which Scandinavians are comfortable is English, I am not sure how happy Scandinavians are with subtitled French or German movies or television shows. I have been somewhat interested in that issue, and never saw anything close to a poll. Shanes is correct in saying that Scandinavians are quite happy with subtitled English movies. As the Dutch are with German productions, I presume. As a result of these decisions, American comedies do relatively poorly in Germany (because dubbed punchlines in Frasier don't work very well), and there are almost no foreign films other than English in Scandinavia.
The original decision many years ago to use subtitles (I don't know for sure) was most likely a cost issue. And this should probably be mentioned (with some references preferably) in the article. But the reason for not making dubbed versions of foreign movies in Scandinavia today is not a cost issue. If there were any audience preference for, say, seeing Der Untergang in any dubbed version (english or norwegian) there would have been a dubbed version offered for the public. At least in some theaters. But there isn't. The same goes for every french or chinese movies ever shown in Norway (I'll just speak for norway now, what scandinavian country are you from?). I don't remember the name of that great chinese movie some 2 years ago (something with dragons in the title), but at least in Norway it was shown with chinese sound and norwegian subtitles even though an English dubbed version was available (the version shown in the us). I strongly believe the reason theaters in Norway showed the version with original sound, is that the Norwegians are used to it. Reading isn't that hard when you get the hold of it. And then the added pleasure of seing a movie with original sound far outweighs the slight disadvantage of having to read to keep track of what's being said.
But you're right, I'm not neutral on this topic. I have my preferences, but I also believe very strongly that the my preference is shared with a vast majority of the Norwegian (scandinavian) public. And this is a talk page, where bias is allowed. And it is bias that we are discussing here. The bias in Norway (scandinavia) is wanting to see any movie in every language (made for people who can read, i.e. 8 years and older) with original sound. If the public bias was any different there would have been at least one movie shown with dubbed sound (in english at least). But I don't know of any. Do you? Shanes 02:14, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)


Shanes, I think that is an accurate assessment. Dubbing (of adult pictures in the vernacular) is not popular in Scandinavia, and I don't think policy would be reverted even if it were economically feasible. However, originally, the reason was purely economic.
No, not purely economic. You don't end up doing it right (dubbing is wrong if you ask people brought up with subtitling) for purely another reason. Don't underestimate those making decissions about this back then. My bet is that many of them believed/knew then that the public really would prefere to hear the voice of John Wayne and Humphrey Bogart and not some Scandinavian voice actor. But the economic factor helped. It might even have been the most important reason, but I'd object to have the statement purely economic describe the reason.
On the other hand, be careful about extending your views to the entire Norwegian population. TV and movie cultures are formed by habit, and they select their own demographics. Ask old people about how they'd prefer a Western. Especially, old people who don't watch TV anymore for the very reason that they cannot read the subtitles fast enough. See how this is difficult?
Huh? I admit not having asked many old people, but I'd be surprised if anyone would start to prefer dubbing in their old days. My father is 73 and he actually has subtitling turned on even on Norwegian shows/movies since his hearing isn't all that great anymore. I don't think he'd even watch a western (western movies are his favourite) if Clint Eastwood had spoken Norwegian in it. It would make an aspect of the movie sound ridiculous. As it would for far, far the greatest majority of Scandinavians. I'm surprised you think otherwise. Are you really from Scandinavia, or have you just moved there?
The average consumer of the product has been selected based on how attractive the product was. Moreover, dubbing/subtexting defines TV habits. People in dubbing-countries like to do other things while watching TV. Many shirts are ironed while not watching (but listening to) afternoon soap operas. In Scandinavia, you need to sit in front of your TV and give it your undivided attention. Also, you cannot get data on how many people would prefer their French movies dubbed or subtitled for the reason that there is no audience for French movies in Scandinavia, and few Scandinavians have any long-time experience with watching dubbed productions in their own language. On the other hand few people in Scandinavia seem to have problems with Disney movies, for example, and most adults will be able to recite the Swedish (but not the English) names of the Seven Dwarves. So there is wide-spread acceptance for dubbing in Scandinavia when people are used to it, and wide-spread disdain when people aren't. That's not very surprising, and seems to be a poor basis for making general remarks. Certainly, your hypothetical experiment of offering a dubbed and a not-dubbed version of a movie and letting the masses decide won't do anything else than reinforce existing prejudices in the self-selected populations. What would be interesting is to see how Japanese movies fare that have been dubbed into English versus the Japanese original. As far as I know, Hong-kong action is shown (at least on Swedish TV) in the dubbed American version. I know very little about this phenomenon. Is there are Mandarin(?) original that one could show instead? Someone must know...
There are quite a few foreign TV-shows in German, French, Spanish etc running on Norwegian TV from time to time. And none of them are dubbed. I also don't agree on the "undivided attention" thing. You make it sound far more complicated than it is. I honestly have to say that it sounds like you haven't been brought up with subtitled TV/movies. I have asked quite a few of my friends the last days, and none of them are in any doubt over that subtitling is the right thing to do. "People watching a movie with original sound are experiencing the movie on a higher level", was the general opinion. And I agree. Even if it's POV, it is the POV of the vast majority of Scandinavians. I am certain of that. And even animated movies for children are shown in Norwegian theaters in 2 versions, one dubbed version for children who can't read, and one with subtitles for older children and adults who can read. Isn't that the case in Sweden, too?
At least with major producers, such as Disney and Dreamworks. I believe Spirited away was shown in both a Swedish and a Japanese version, as well.
Currently, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is shown in Sweden in two versions, one Swedish and one English, it is one important reason that Roald Dahl, Tim Burton and Johnny Depp all has many adult fans in Sweden with a good knowledge of English.
I don't belive the "good knowledge of english" is that important. You didn't dub "Der Untergang" in Sweden, even if very few Swedes have a good knowledge of German. It's simply like this: Movies for adults are showed with subtitles because adults can read. Movies for children are dubbed (or shown in both versions) because children can't read that well. No foreign movies in scandinavia are dubbed if the audience are (predomanently) people who can read. Regardless of what language the actors speak. While movies for children are often dubbed, regardless of the language the actors or animated characters speak. It's not a english/not english thing. It's a can read/can't read thing. Shanes 23:04, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
True, that. What I meant was that, although this might be a children's movie, there still is a huge adult market for it. I heard that The SpongeBob SquarePants Movie, in spite of generally good reviews and a relatively large adult fanbase, wasn't shown subtitled in Swedish, probably because the producers didn't believe there was a huge enough market for it....
On Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs: The animated movie is based on the German fairy tale by the Brothers Grimm, and is much older than any Disney movie, and I believe the local names for the seven dwarfs are from the almost 200 year old translated books. Not 100% sure, though. Anyway, the names of the seven dwarfs would be translated in the subtitled version as well. Just as the names of the characters in LOTR was translated in the subtitling acording to the names used in the translated versions of the Tolkien books. People knowing all these names in Norwegian/Swedish doesn't have anything to do with dubbing or not. They are based on the books. Shanes 20:06, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
As someone made me aware of, the naming of the 7 dwarves was a Disney invention. So here the scandinavian names were a translation of the Disney names. 23:04, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Finally, on esthetics. You can chose to either destroy the visual side of the picture (by putting text on the lower half) or the audio track (by dubbing). Which is better? I don't know -- since film is a visual medium, I think dubbing is better, but I'm not sure. Both are problematic (much like reading a book in translation), but short of learning the language in question there isn't much to do about it... When the language is one that I am comfortable in, I prefer the original (be it a book or a movie), but with Russian or Japanese I need a translation that will invariably just be an approximation of the original. Arbor 09:02, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)


More generally, this article could do a better job in explaining how foreign-language productions are shown in different countries. In the larger European countries, they are always dubbed into the local language, as far as I know. (Can we confirm this? It's true for Germany, France, Italy, and Spain. Please add to this list.) In the small or poor European countries movies are either subtitled or have voice-over narration. (The latter is often used for children's programs in Scandinavia as well, presumably because dubbing is more expensive.) Conversely, as a rule, the US and UK don't show foreign language movies in the first place (excepting niches like highbrow films and hong-kong action, which are subtitled or dubbed, respectively), or redo the entire production. (For the German tv soap Schwarzwaldklinik, every scene was shot twice. First in German, and then immediately shot again by the same actors in English, after which their dialogue was dubbed by English-speaking actors to get rid of the German accents. Not that's an expensive way of dubbing!)
I am sure this last paragraph gives only part of the picture, and we need some international collaboration on this issue. However, the current article comes off as just a heavily biased and not very informative opinion piece about how English language productions are treated in some large European countries. (Note that with the advent of DVDs, original English soundtracks are trivial to come by. I have never seen a DVD that didn't include the original soundtrack.)

Same voice artists?[edit]

What I'd like to know is if the voice artists for, say, France, always do the voices of a certain actress/actor. For example, does Pierre Dupont (a theoretical Frenchman) always do the voices of Robert de Niro?

  • I've been told that is the case in Germany. Don't know about France. --Pc13 17:42, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • It is definitely the case in Germany. The only problem is, if there is one movie with two different actors, which are normally dupped by the same person. Especially there is one guy, Thomas Danneberg, who give his voice to Arnold Schwarzenegger, Terence Hill, Sylvester Stallone, John Cleese, Dan Aykroyd, Nick Nolte, John Travolta, Michael York, Rutger Hauer and Dennis Quaid. (But most people dont know it...)
    • In Brazil we have dubbing too and this is not the case here. By the way I must add that I hate dubbing. It screws up with the show sounds and the dubbing is naturally of a worse quality thanm the original sound. Also there are a pretty small about of dubbers for a large amount of actors) PMLF 05:28, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
      • I heard that this is the case in Spanish, as well.
  • Yes, the custom in France is for each foreign actor to always be voiced by the same French actor, to the extent possible. For example, Jim Carrey is almost always voiced by Emmanuel Curtil. In this interview, Curtil talks a lot about the dubbing industry in France. Among other things he says that one time they tried to replace Jean-Claude Michel as the voice of Clint Eastwood, and people walked out of the theatre seeking refunds; it felt like a betrayal because their actor's voice had been changed.--Mathew5000 11:15, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Most of the times, it's the same voices for every movies. But the film director can requires a voice-change. For instance, Jean-Pierre Moulin is the "french voice" of Jack Nicholson since "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", he dubbed all of his movie, except "Shining". Because Stanley Kubrick wanted Jean-Louis Trintignant (a famous actor) for dubbing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.199.60.205 (talk) 19:47, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

In France, many foreign performes have "their own" dubber, but this can occasionnally change. French dubbing for Harrison Ford is generally provided by Richard Darbois, but Francis Lax dubbed him in the french version of the Star Wars series. The permanence of a dubber can occasionnally generate some problems when an actor is systematically associated with a dubbing voice. Clint Eastwood's french dubber died a few years back and hearing Clint with a "new" french voice is disconcerting to many. Wedineinheck 15:03, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Afterthoughts[edit]

When reading this article, one may get the impression that dubbing is very, very bad, as it destroys the original version. for example, this article states that in Germany there is "unfortunately" no possiblity to get an foreign movie in the original language. Actually, most people are comfortable in viewing a movie in a dubbed version, rather than learning a language from the scratch. For example, even with school english, it is hard to understand most of the English productions. therefore, kids for example are quite happy to see Spongebob Squarepants in German language. In the Netherlands, most cartoons are only subbed, leaving the spoken language english - and rendering kids below "advanced and fast reading age" unable to understand anything of the context just shown on the tv - therefore i must say, dubbing is very productive and useful to people who are not able to understand the foreign language (kids, older people), it shouldn't be in the interest of a society to lock out certain groups from understanding the meaning of a tv / movie production.

On the other side, this article "compliments" the North American / British way in only subbing foreign productions, rather then "destroying" them by dubbing. It should be stated here that most productions that are relased in the USA, for example, are actually productions from the USA thereselves, therefore there is no need for subbing / dubbing. So the "critique" on German dubbing is a little vague, compared to the closed tv market in the united states, that makes it hard for foreign productions to be shown there. many independent production companies can't efford dubbing foreign movies into the English language, as there is no big market that makes this possible.


It'd be nice, if someone could rearrange the critic in the article and maybe

thanks, --Abdull 14:08, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, only if you're just a guest and not a citizen (tourist, businessman -- in any case usually there to help German or French or Italian economy) for a limited period of time, it just shows how polite the Western European societies are towards guests -- things have not changed that much since the times of Hitler and Mussolini, really. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omulurimaru (talkcontribs) 02:53, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Eastern European Style[edit]

I think the article should mention something about the style of dubbing, that is popular in for instance Russia and Poland, where the original track is kept, with just the volume lowered, and a native narrator is just translating the original lines on top of it, completely without even an attempt of feeling the mood or acting. (This technique has been used in Sweden as well, for Tom and Jerry cartoons on national television. Needless to say, this is some of the worst dubs I have ever heard. It completely destroys the mood of the original films.

OK, there was some mention about the Polish standard already... Hmmm, why bother reading an article... @_@

I live in Poland and it really is common, but only on TV, while most theatrical releases are subtitled. I cannot agree it is disastrous, maybe because I was growing with films translated this way. It is good, because you don't have to read the subtitles, and you still hear the original soundtrack. Anyway, I've found (and corrected) some errors in the article - in Poland, one narrator (usually male, but... I don't know a word for this... "Discovery Channel - style" shows are often dubbed by female narrator Krystyna Czubówna) is reading all the lines, not only on pirate copies, but on professional television, too. Maybe it is a rule in Russia, I'm not certain of this. --83.17.26.246 22:53, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

  • "It completely destroys the mood of the original films." - are you kidding? You must have never heard badly dubbed films, such as German versions (no offence to the language itself!). The dubbing of films such as The Terminator, Batman and the like, have been ridiculed in many jokes ;). Can you imagine the Terminator speaking Hebrew, or Batman speaking Polish? Obviously, the "voice-over" technique is not the best thing, but it's a way better than bad dubbing. If you come from a country where dubbing is the prefered solution, you may not realize how annoying it sometimes may be. Also, the system is not limited to Poland or Russia; I have seen Polish documentaries broadcast on German TV use the same technique.

    I remember foreign films in Poland being dubbed in the early 80's, and there were always far from perfect (more a language than a technical matter); the last dubbed film on TV I remember being about 1986. Of course, some films at the some time ised the technique which I called "voice over", and other people caled "lektor".

    Advantages of the system include preserving the original audio, which makes it possible to hear the original tone of actors' voices etc., and also to understand the orginal, if you understand the language. Disadvantages include hearing the usual f.ck and the like in American movies, which are obviously NOT translated into the Polish version (otherwise 90% of American films would be shown after 23:00 or 11 P.M.)LMB 08:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, it depends if you are used or not to the dubbing technique. Even though French dubbings are not always top quality (Italian ones are arguably better), French audiences are used to them. The "voice-over" technique from Poland is just hilarious to most people in France, while Polish people are used to it. Wedineinheck 17:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

- What? Italian dubbing (of italian films) is the worst in all movies! Cheaply done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.168.48.122 (talk) 15:35, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Loop[edit]

The following is from Loop, a disambiguation page:

  • To "loop" is a term used in audio post production where an actor re-records his/her voice in a studio setting. This term is currently often replaced with the term "ADR" or Automated Dialogue Replacement. This is used when the original audio that was recorded on set was poor/damaged/lost etc. The term "loop" itself refers, as much of the film industry terminology does, to the old days where the actor was shown a continual film loop of the scene he/she was recording so that they would be able to synchronize their voice with the performance that was shot at an earlier date. Now, of course, looping or ADR is recorded using computer software.

Could someone incorporate this information into the article so that it can be deleted from the dab page? Thanks, Melchoir 02:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

A missing example of looping is when a young actor's voice changes during the making of the film, and all dialog before the change is looped for consistancy. (Example: Edward Furlong's voice changed about half-way through the making of Terminator 2, according to the commentary track.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.63.27.63 (talk) 17:08, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Film/TV?[edit]

From where is the statement that dubbing of film is more common than dubbing of TV series? My impression is that countries generally dub nearly all or nearly nothing of the media they import, regardless of how it was first aired? 惑乱 分からん 17:07, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Japanese dubs of certain American series[edit]

How or where can you find clips of the Japanese dubs of certain American shows, like Invader Zim and My Life as a Teenage Robot? --User:Angie Y.

Finland[edit]

There is no subtitling both in Finnish and in Swedish in Finnish TV. And as far I can remember, there has never been at least in thirty-five years. But in the movie theatres there are both subtitles, in foreign movies. --Lalli 17:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Please be more specific and give some sort of evidence; it sounds like you're suggesting you remember every single movie and television program played in Finland in the last 35 years, which is clearly not your argument. -Unknownwarrior33 04:28, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Lalli is right. Before digital TV, subtitles were in Finnish only, with few exceptions. Many programs now have subtitles in Swedish too but not all. It should be noted that the Finnish broadcaster YLE uses dubbing not only in programs for children, but often for off-screen narration in nature and history documentaries too - "subtitles would spoil the picture" as one translator has said. -Harjasusi (talk) 20:48, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Brazil[edit]

The article is correct when it says that foreign TV programs are usually dubbed on Brazilian TV whereas foreign-language motion pictures are usually subtitled when shown in movie theaters. There are however a few exceptions. First, animated motion pictures like "Ice Age" or any typical Disney cartoon may be seen either in dubbed or subtitled versions in most movie theaters. That is also true BTW in the case of non-animated movies that are nonetheless aimed at a younger audience (Star Wars for example). I guess the point is that, in the first case, young children have only limited reading proficiency and struggle to follow subtitles, and, in the second case, teen audiences are (unfortunately) too lazy to read ! On the other hand, on paid-TV channels (available via cable or satellite), foreign-language drama or comedy series are usually subtitled (like in movie theaters), whereas in local, open-air broadcast networks, dubbing is preferred. Mbruno 20:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Additional Dialogue Recording??[edit]

Everything I've ever heard says that ADR stands for "Additional Dialogue Recording," which certainly makes more sense than "Automated Dialogue Replacement." There's nothing particularly "automated" about it, now is there? The Google Fight between the two shows Additional Dialogue Recording as more prevalent, and to my eyes, the search results for Additional Dialogue Recording look more reliable than those for Automated Dialogue Replacement. SFT | Talk 07:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I really don't think Google Fight is a relable source, nor are interpretations of search results. The main issue is that without checking all of them, it's impossible to know how many of the search results (a) are unique and (b) would be considered good sources in their own rights. -Unknownwarrior33 04:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I am a sound editor in Los Angeles. It is and always has been Automated Dialogue Replacement. I am without a source, though, so at this time I am a bit wary of making a correction. I would expect "Additional Dialogue Recording" to win a googlefight, on account of the great generality of the term, whereas "Automated Dialogue Replacement" is quite specific, referring to the old process of "looping" being "automated" by the computerized LarTech ADR system (LarTech originated the term as a sales tactic). Again, I don't have the link, LarTech appears to have gone out of business. Iluvcapra 03:31, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, the lede paragraph says "also incorrectly known as "additional dialogue recording"," yet the first paragraph under Methods, ADR/post-sync, says "or additional dialogue recording (ADR)". Which is it? Also known as or incorrectly known as?? WesT (talk) 01:52, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Some call it "Automatic" instead of "Automated". I recall taking a class where they said to use one and not the other, but I am struggling to recall which of the two was preferred. Misty MH (talk) 19:51, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Dubbing articles need some cleanup[edit]

I am suggesting reworking our dubbing articles. Please see discussion at Talk:Dubbing. -- Infrogmation 18:01, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

anime claim[edit]

I'm kind of taking issue with this statement:

Since most anime series contain some extent of profanity, the studios recording the English dubs often re-record certain lines if a series or movie is going to be broadcast on Cartoon Network, removing references to death and hell as well.

It's well known that a lot of anime does have profanity, and off the top of my head i would estimate even that the majority of anime shown on Cartoon Network does. But saying 'most anime series contain some extent of profanity' is a pretty steep claim to make. Not only is 'some extent of profanity' a little vague, but 'most anime series' literally encompasses hundreds or possibly thousands of series that have been produced since, what, the early 1950s? I don't see how anybody could make that claim scientifically. But i don't know, maybe somebody can cite a source. I added a 'verification needed' thing. ~ lav-chan @ 14:13, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

What's "automated" about ADR?[edit]

It sounds like a fairly time intensive process. Where is "automated" about the process? --24.249.108.133 23:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Redubbed British accents for US[edit]

Should there be a section on the redubbing of strong regional British/Irish/Australian accents in films by american actors for the US? For example: Trainspotting [1]. Or if this process happens the other way round. Mrscruffy 09:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Dubbing in Italy since the 1920s ?[edit]

Weren't movies silent for most of that decade ? I guess the person writing the sentence meant the 1930s... Wedineinheck 15:04, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Differences between France and Québec's dubbings[edit]

I added some stuffs about the differences in french dubbings. About the persistence of some Québec idioms : I saw a clip from a Québec dub of a Harry Potter movie. In that scene, one of the professors tells Harry that he knew his mother, who was a "wonderfully good woman". In the french canadian dub, the sentence goes "ta mère était une femme merveilleusement bonne", which, to french ears, sounds like "your mother was wonderful in bed". As for American direct-to-video films being released in France with a French Canadian dubbing, I could see several american B-movies with a dubbing which sound bizarre to french audiences. In a scene from Tobe Hooper's "The Mangler", a character calls another one "vaurien", as the other one has just killed his wife. I assume "vaurien" is a rather strong insult in Canadian French, but in "France French", it means something like "naughty boy". French Canadian dubbings might be in "International French" (i.e. without strong Québec accents), but examples like these abound. I could also verify that people from Québec generally hate the French dubbing of "The Simpsons", as voices and jokes seem generally unfunny or just plain weird to them. Wedineinheck 17:09, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

How does "une femme merveilleusement bonne" sound like "wonderful in bed"? Seems like is Chinese fortune cookie logic to me. What expression did the translators from France use? Quebec dubs in "international French" have actually little to no Quebec French idioms in them, but seek "geographically" neutral expressions and cultural references that should be understood by anyone who speaks the language. In particular, translation of slang terms may turn into artificial popular register expressions, as slang in French varies a lot by region. That also means Starfleet officer ranks in Star Trek are translated literally instead of using ranks from the French navy (in the France dub of Star Trek: Generations, everyone seemed to be captain of something (dunette, frégate, corvette), except for Jean-Luc Picard, who was commandant or commandeur, I can't recall, but to anyone who has seen Star Trek: The Next Generation in English, that's terribly confusing and simply wrong). In your other example, "vaurien" is not a insult used in Quebec French (see Quebec French profanity), and without the original sentence in The Mangler, it's impossible to tell why the Quebec translator picked that particular word. Now, some comedy shows like The Simpsons are expressedly translated to Quebec French, not international French, because regionalisation is much more effective to translate the humour for the local audience.--Boffob 12:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
In the movie (it actually was Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azhkaban), the french translation went "une femme d'une très grande bonté". Actually, in french slang, saying of a woman "elle est bonne" can mean either "she's great in bed" or "she looks like she's great in bed". Hence, "une femme merveilleusement bonne" is a neutral expression in Québec, but it now sounds odd in France, quite simply because the expression is antiquated and has taken a different meaning in France. Maybe using the term "idiom" wasn't right". However, I saw a clip from a Québec version of "The Terminator", and "I'll be back" was translated as "J'reviens tantôt", which IS a Québec idiom and sounds odd to french ears (the french translation was the admittedly uninspired "Je reviendrai"). As for the "Simpsons" translation, it seemed like a good example to me as it shows that humor does not travel well, even between countries using the same language. Wedineinheck 13:18, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Which clip are you talking about (and which Terminator movie, there are 3, and I'm guessing only the last one has a Quebec dub, the other two predate the UdA lobbying)? Because the "Je reviendrai" version is the only one I've seen, and I doubt the translators would use such a popular register for the character.--Boffob 14:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
This was a clip from the first movie. However, if you are definitely sure that the Québec version used "je reviendrai", this might have been a spoof, as it was only a clip on the internet. I maintain, however, that french canadian versions generally sound peculiar to french audiences (as french versions must sound peculiar to Québec audiences) because of some difference in idioms (see the Harry Potter example above) an of the english-accented pronunciation of anglo-saxon names. One example is the B-movie "When the bullet hits the bone", starring Jeff Wincott, which was distributed in France with a Québec dub. While accentless, this dubbing accented all the anglo-saxon names (hence, all the characters' names), and sounded really odd to french audiences. Wedineinheck 16:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
For the Terminator, if it's a short clip on the internet it is most certainly a spoof."J'reviens tantôt" is way too familiar to be in the actual dub (and is not a proper translation of "I'll be back"). But, for the rest, I understand; that some pronounciations still differ is quite right, and that some expressions may sound artificial is also true. My only contention is saying there are Quebec idioms in the International French dubs. The translators try to avoid this as much as possible (hence the sometimes unnatural phrasing). The best example you can come up with is actually a perfectly innocent sentence, it just happens that some people in France may read way too much innuendo. That sentence, taken literally, is perfectly understandable, therefore it is not an idiom; it is the "good in bed" meaning that would be one, a France idiom. If Quebec dubs were riddled with expressions like "deux de pique", then we'd talk about idioms, but as far as I know that is not the case.
So, what I'm saying is that we should rephrase that small part of the article. It's not Quebec idioms as much as excising practically all regional expressions that makes the International French dub weird or unnatural to viewers in France and elsewhere outside Quebec. This may be particularly apparent when it comes to translating into popular register. There's no real international slang, and, to paraphrase what a translator was pointing out in La Presse a while ago, a tough cop in an action scene saying "lâche ton flingue" works in France but sounds silly in Québec, but to use Québec slang in the dub would sound equally silly in a movie not set in Québec, so they opt for a more neutral expression. I think it's really an issue of "International French" not being entirely "Standard French", or rather, it being not entirely "natural", in the sense that everyone's speech has local idioms or varying register, and no one speaks "International French" in real life.--Boffob 18:49, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Yep, I see what you mean. I guess "idiom" was not the proper expression to use. We are talking about the same case as "Honey, I shrunk the kids", whose french title, "Chérie j'ai rétréci les gosses", would probably be hilarious to Québec audiences for the wrong reasons... Wedineinheck 21:04, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the edits. I removed the "citation needed" tag that I put before. In light of this discussion I think it's unnecessary, and I realize that, though it would be nice to have such a reference for that, the obscure minutiae of dubs in France's cheaper direct-to-dvd release market is probably not discussed in many places.--Boffob 01:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
One of the reasons is that French distributors bought the rights at Films markets, with the French Canadian version being included in the package. I think this happened mostly in the 1990s. Wedineinheck 10:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm French and I'd say "bonne" when referring to a woman would translate as "hot" or something similar. It has sexual intonations but doesn't mean "good in bed" but rather "nice breasts and ass". "Merveilleusement bonne" sounds first awkward, then depending on your way of thinking you would understand the intended "nice" or you would think "hot" and laugh. Aesma (talk) 01:25, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Learning foreign languages (Romanian missconception ?)[edit]

As I can see learning an foreign languages by watching movies in the original language is considered a misconception. This is probably because a language can not be learn just by watching movies, a base knowledge of the language is required. But watching movies in the original language can at least increase vocabulary. I have learn English by watching Cartoon Network, is true that I had English class in school but it wasn't very efficient. After I started watching cartoons in English i have started remembering the words, and even pronounce them with a very good accent. (Except the times when I had a Scooby-Do accent ) It's true that this method will not learn you a lot of grammar or writing (I am still not able to write correctly) but will help a lot. Unfortunately all the programs for children are now dubbed here in Romania. And even more unfortunately is that in Europe almost everything is dubbed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.232.170.84 (talk) 19:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

As an English teacher I can guarantee that people from countries that use dubbing almost always have worse English than people from countries that use subtitles. I'd even say it's the most important general factor involved. Bienfuxia (talk) 19:12, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm from Hungary and I also learned English from Cartoon Network :D Never had English class in school. I did learn German starting from the third grade in school, but i already knew some German before, thanks to the FTA satellite channels like RTL or ProSieben. And those channels aren't even subtitled.
I think subtitling can be beneficial to learning languages. For example: you learn some language in school. You learn how the teacher (probably not a native speaker of the language he teaches) speaks that language. If you don't travel abroad, the only use of your language skills will be if you meet some foreign tourist or your job requires the use of that language.
But with subtitling there can be a daily exposure to foreign languages, one hears how native speakers use the language, one can study all kinds of situations that never occur in a language class and can easily set himself a goal to better his language skills.
I think the best solution would be with the transition to digital TV (DVB-T, ATSC, etc.) to have the dubbed and original audio and the subtitles available to the viewer, just like on DVDs. CyberDragon777 (talk) 13:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

One can certainly learn a foreign language by watching television. Go to the Netherlands or Belgium or many other countries in Western Europe that are not too chauvinistic, and you'll find the children can understand English surprisingly well. Speaking for myself: English in Belgian (Flemish) schools is a joke (compared to other languages classes), and yet we can all speak it. I agree completely with Bienfuxia. 213.47.144.254 (talk) 20:40, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I feel that mostly people watch foreign movies or any movie for that matter, for the sake of entertainment. The idea of learning a language by watching movies does not cross everyone's mind unless the person concerned is in a necessity to learn the language. Hence, the quality of watching a movie gets reduced if one keeps reading the subtitles. You miss out on the expression, the scenic beauty and you keep reading as you would read a book. If you know both the languages, you will have the tendency to compare what is said on the screen to what is given in the subtitle. Ultimately you end up reading a book in a movie form. No doubt, you can improve on the foreign language by listening to the actor and your pronunciation will get better. But, as I mentioned it all boils down to the purpose of your watching the movie. If it is for entertainment, I would vote for dubbing. CamDolly - Modular Camera Dolly and Slider System — Preceding unsigned comment added by Camdolly (talkcontribs) 06:31, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Same language being dubbed more than once[edit]

The article mentions examples of movies being released to two or more countries speaking the same language be dubbed by the local actors of each respective country on account of dialect and slang differences. Why is this not the case for English films? How come you never hear Americans complain that they cannot watch a British film because the accent and the use of British English is too incomprehensible and vice-versa? It seems that all English speaking countries, regardless of national variation of the language, can understand each other well enough. Are Quebecois people really completely unable to understand European French, as well as Spanish and Portuguese speaking South Americans are unable to understand European Spanish and Portuguese? Or is it just a matter of a strong personal preference for the native variation of a language? The article does not mention French audiences having trouble understanding Quebec French the same way Quebecois people can't understand the European variation, it only says they find it humorous or distracting. --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 05:49, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

  • Some countries are definitely more sensitive than others to accent differences, but they always get in the way, even in the English-speaking world. For instance, the romantism of a love scene may be lost if the lovers speak in an unfamiliar accent or use unfamiliar expressions. This is definitely the case for European vs. Brazilian Portuguese, by the way. My impression (as a former resident of California, for several years) is that British movies and programs made for export are shot at the origin in artificially "bland" versions of the various British accents. What remains of those accents is not enough to spoil the enjoyment by American audiences; on the contrary, it may add some classy, exotic, or humorous flavor to the film (e.g. Sean Connery's accent, or John Cleese's). But I have seen a few movies and TV dramas shot for local British markets where the actors speak with rather heavy regional accents (Scottish, Yorkshire, etc.). I can enjoy them here in Brazil thanks to subtitling; but I suspect that they would not be very popular in America — because of the accent. I suspect that most British comedy shows would not sould half as funny to American audiences. (During my stay in the US, British TV sitcoms and TV dramas were aired almost exclusively on PBS, and only because they were much less expensive than US titles.) Also note that British actors must get rid of their British accents if they want to work for Hollywood. But whatever. All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 05:41, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm French and I agree that understanding and enjoying are very different things. Québécois and French can understand each other fine, with the need for some explanation here and there (dépanneur ? char ?). Now, to a French audience a Québécois dubbing (usually of a Hollywood movie) is really strange and often downright funny, even if the movie is dramatic. So, it's very detrimental. Now the opposite might not be true if until recently Québécois were used to French dubbing, the fact is the French audience isn't used to Québécois dubbing. For better or worse dubbing is an industry here, and all mainstream Hollywood actors have familiar French voices (I wouldn't say the voice actors are famous, only their voice/interpretation is). So if suddenly you don't get the usual voices, and all the actors have an exotic accent and use strange expressions, it makes for a surprise ! We got exposed to Québécois dubbing during the early 2000s, when DivX pirated movies were common, along with imported DVDs, due to US movies being released months late in France, and local DVDs only allowed 6 months after that date. Let's just say it made for a lot of unintended laughs. And it was one of the reasons that pushed me to learn English, now I can't stand any kind of dubbing ! Aesma (talk) 01:45, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Poor Article[edit]

This article has a number of problems, including a terribly POV writing style, almost no sources and the same information repeated over and over again. I'm going to embark on a major re-write quite soon. Any thoughts? Bienfuxia (talk) 23:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

  • Poor article indeed. For instance, most of the contents of "dubbing around the world" is boring and poorly refernced detail that may change withing the next five years. If such details are removed, the remaining information can be condensed into a table (IN A SEPARATE ARTICLE, please) with one line for each country, one column for each media/type/source, (children movies, anime, tv soapoperas/sitcoms, theater movies, tv movies, pay tv movies, etc.; foreign/national) and entries like "most", "all", "rarely", etc. Or, instead, turn each column into a world thematic map (or a single multilayer clickable map). All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 05:06, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Good'ay, I completely agree with you. I am a sound engineer working in the dubbing field at present, and have one or two things I would like to contribute. I would be interested in co-re-writing parts of it. Some groundless claims and namedropping occur throughout, as well as horribly redundant repetitiousness that absolutely need to be pruned. thorvandahl (talk) 21:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


I would agree. This article is a little on the long side, without actually providing very much information. Lucifer-oxy (talk) 16:37, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


I also agree that this article is quite poor, mainly because I find completely inappropriate the mixing of ADR (normal looping using the same actor in the same language to improve sound quality) with "language dubbing" in lieu of subtitles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.117.193.220 (talk) 04:08, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Most of the Talk contributions are more than 5 years old and the templates in the article are from 2012, so I think it would be helpful to take action on this article. I will do a minor template update today, but the poor quality of this article needs to be addressed more deeply by people with expertise in the area. I will look at doing some general copyediting.--Soulparadox (talk) 18:11, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
I tackled some copyediting today and attempted restructuring to organize the meandering, repetitive nature of the article. I have not addressed the "global" section, which needs serious attention, nor did I attempt any sourcing.
Question: Should the global section be reassigned into the Dub localization article?JourneySarah (talk) 05:08, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Dubbing in Israel and other Hébreophone countries[edit]

The article lists Israel as a country where subtitles are often used, Hebrew language dubbing is extremely unpopular for foreign language films? Allo002 (talk) 10 August 2009

Dubbing "for amusement" in German dialects??[edit]

At "Dubbing the same language several times" it is said that quite a lot of movies have been dubbed in German dialects "for amusement" (besides the official dubbing). I come from Germany, have never heard of this before and can't find a source. I can only imagine that it is meant that there are sometimes fans who make their own dubbed version just for fun and upload it to youtube. Professional dubbing of a whole movies just "for amusement" would be much too expensive, and it would be at least mentioned at dvd shops if a dvd had such an additional language version. --94.220.230.126 (talk) 15:41, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Wenn du ja aus Deutschland bist, kann ich hier ja mal auf Deutsch antworten.Mit "for amusement" sind logischerweise nicht die fandubs auf Youtube gemeint. Aber ich beschäftige mich mit dem Synchronisieren von Filmen schon einige Jahre und habe unteranderem bei meinen Recherchen auch einige Synchronfirmen, Filmverleihe und Fernsehanstalten zum Thema Synchronisation angeschrieben. Der Begriff "for amusement" mag vielleicht etwas witzig erscheinen und eventuell hier falsch gewählt sein, doch dienen diese Mundart-Synchronisationen eher der (lustigeren) Unterhaltung und wird auch teilweise deshalb gemacht, damit eine gewisse Klientel angesprochen wird und zum kaufen animiert wird. (Disney-Fans kennen ja das nur zu gut: Bei jeder Neuerscheinung eine noch bessere Platinum-Version oder Collectors-Version mit vielen Neuerungen und Specials und neu resaurierten Szenen und mit neuer Synchronisation etc...) Ich würde nicht meinen, dass das zu teuer wäre weil schließlich gibt es ja nicht so viele Mundart-Synchronisationen. Da steckt wohl eher ein gewisser Werbegag dahinter. Häsk (talk) 19:17, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

US documentary overdubs[edit]

In some American documentaries I've seen where non-English speakers were interviewed, there seems to be a tradition to have a voiceover dub (similar to Russia and Poland) in where the dubber translates the speech in a fake foreign accent. How common is this? As a Swede, I find it slightly patronizing. There's no accent in their native tongue. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:00, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about American documentaries but in Austria and Germany (I'm from Austria) foreign-language documentaries are also "voiced-over" (next to the narrator there is also a male voice-over for men and a female voice-over for women and in the background you can hear the original interviewed person in a lower loudness) but in our documentaries and television news dubbers don't translate the speech in a fake foreign accent, they speak in normal German but they try to express and emphasize the emotion and expression of the interviewed person what means when the person screams, laughs or is sad the voice-over dubber tries to transport the situation into German. But in films it sometimes occurs that a person is dubbed in an other accent, especially when an actor is speaking German in the original film which become difficult to dub.
From where did you get those informations about using foreign fake accents in American documentaries?? I only know the American animated TV-series Captain Planet and the Planeteers in which 5 young people the "Planeteers" (everyone comes from a different continent of the world) speak in a typical accent in the original English version.
When I first watched it in English I thought it was a joke, in the first moment I thought they wanted to poke fun at the 5 persons who come frome different countries but maybe I only thought so because I only grew up and knew the German dubbed version in which they weren't dubbed in different accents. Pirosko (talk) 22:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Double-dubbing[edit]

I'm American, but I lived and worked near Bonn in [West] Germany in the 1960's. I was born & raised on the farm of my grandparents in western Pennsylvania. They were German immigrants, so they still spoke mostly German, which I picked up. I studied German prior to being assigned there by my employer in 1967. This was in the days of "Spaghetti Westerns" - low-budget movies shot on location in Italy, utilizing Italian actors speaking Italian, with English dubbed in for American audiences. Of course, many American movies were then shown in [then West] Germany, including these "Spaghetti Westerns", but now with the dialogue redubbed in German. [Germans have always been intrigued by 'The Old West', and the 'Westerns' made about it.] I remember attending these showings, now with a 'double-translated' sound track. One talks about 'things getting lost in translation', but this was rediculous! This was especially true with regard to 'Western Cowboy Talk', not to mention idioms & slang, which were all uniquely 'American'. I was in the unique position of understanding the original 'American' English version, as well as the resultant version auf Deutch. The audiences would burst out laughing at some of the more ludicrous, literal double-translations! -- Rocketperson393 (talk) 00:09, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

What Western Europe is best at...[edit]

...is Nationalism. What the U.S. and the U.K. are best at is actually acting. Give me a break, no-name dubbers even comparable to the likes of Robert de Niro? You've got to be kidding. Americans seem to like reading and Europeans seem to like hearing (when it comes to foreign movies) -- it kind of inverses the stereotypes, doesn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omulurimaru (talkcontribs) 02:58, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

--Christian Skipper (talk) 18:34, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Well in the US most people don't watch movies in a foreign language so this is a non-issue. --Danbob999 (talk) 16:51, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Subtitles in Turkey and voice-over in Poland?[edit]

Im wondering why there stands that Turkey is using subtitles in the map, when everybody knows that they are dubbing everything? and i dont think Poland is using voice-over in new movies anymore, because they are now using subtitles.--Christian Skipper (talk) 17:28, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Anyone?--Christian Skipper (talk) 18:34, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

UK mainly has subtitles?[edit]

Absolute bullshit! I'm a UK resident of more than twenty years, and subtitles are mainly for foreign films. Otherwise, anything presented in a foreign language always has a voiceover or dubbing. This includes documentaries and news broadcasts featuring a non-English speaker. What are the specific sources for the UK? I'd like to have a look at them, because the claim that subtitles are widespread in the UK is completely false. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:25, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Actually, wait a minute.. Does this graphic mean films only? If so, then I guess it's correct. My bad. I thought it was meant to represent the general scope of dubbing/voiceovers in Europe. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:30, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Slovakia and Czech Republic[edit]

In here, voice-over is usually used for documentaries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.40.65.224 (talk) 18:05, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Dubbing for children at various locales[edit]

My questions pertain to the situation of dubbing (filmmaking) and distribution of Disney animated feature films produced in the last two decades at different countries and regions to local audiences. 1. Are Disney features regularly presented in cinemas around Vietnam? If not, why not? If yes, are they dubbed in Vietnamese (the article on dubbing shows that Rio (film) was the first large foreign animation dubbed in Vietnamese; what was the situation before, and is it becoming a trend now)? Also, what about Malaysia and Indonesia? And the Philippines? 2. What is the situation with CIS members in Central Asia? Is it the Russian-language dub that is preferred there, if any - or perhaps the Turkish one? Also, what about Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia. It appears on Youtube-evidence, that Tangled now has been dubbed in Armenian. Is it a first occassion for a Disney animation? 3. It seems - again, based on Youtube evidence - that Disney (and probably other Hollywood animations) have been being dubbed into the national languages of the three Baltic states since at least The Princess and the Frog. What was the situation like in the 1990s? Were animated features presented in Russian? 4. Was the Zulu dub for Lion King a solitary occassion for a Disney animation (or any other animated feature from Hollywood) being dubbed into a national language of a Sub-Saharan African country?

I have already posted these questions at Reference Desk: Entertainment. Thanks in advance. 94.21.71.63 (talk) 06:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

German Wikipedia articles used as citations[edit]

As Wikipedia articles (regardless of language, as far as I am aware) are not appropriate as citations, I have replaced these with Citation messages.--Soulparadox (talk) 14:01, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Recommending WP:SPLIT of Global Use section into its own article[edit]

This article is 80kB, over 12,000 words, which is getting a bit long for a single article. I think it makes sense to split the article, and splitting out the Global Use section looks like the most reasonable way to do it. Anyone willing to take this on? – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:54, 18 August 2013 (UTC)